What does your wife shoot?

[DocH]

Mine uses a G26,slightly gussied up with whatever I give her to load in it.
Usually RA9T. I still wonder sometimes why I taught her to shoot.
Worst mistake I ever made was teaching my first wife.Thank God she wasn't too good,but she sure could miss close.
I was running across the pasture jumping over junk cars(yes,it's true what you hear about Georgia:) I could hear those round nose lead 38's hitting the car bodies behind me.

[Brownie]

Good topic Doc,

Mine shoots whatever I stick in her hand pretty well, including my 1911's.

Her personal choice when riding her horse in the desert is a lightweight 5 shot jframe sized .38 spl Taurus, worn crossdraw in an Uncle Mikes snapped down loaded with Win Rangers

She isn't interested in carrying unless riding and it is mandatory she take it with the cellphone if she saddles up.

[RAM]

When I read the title my first response was ME if she gets half a chance!

But seriously... She shoots G17 and G22 pretty well, but kind of slow, hasn't grasped the flash sight picture yet!

[steve2267]

When I read the title my first response was ME if she gets half a chance!

But seriously... She shoots G17 and G22 pretty well, but kind of slow, hasn't grasped the flash sight picture yet!

Maybe she'd be a great candidate to learn Quick Kill before getting all fouled up by the sights? :D

Mine made the mistake of saying I could buy her a gun some time. So she got a duotone nickel / blued CZ-75 Compact for her 10th Anniversary. She'll shoot the center out of a target at 10 yards with her sights.

And yes... I need to teach my wife QK too. Haven't done that yet. (shame on me)

[7677]

Fifteen years ago, my wife decided she wanted my CZ50, Seven years ago, she shot and decided on my CZ85. Now she has her eye on my S&W model 37 because it so small and light.

[RAM]

Steve2267,

I was under the impression from posts by Roger, I think (P8triot) that it is best to become proficient (at least competant) with the sights first.

Is this not the case? Or should I ask is it really better to learn QK first/or only? Only does not seem like the best option, I know my sights work nice when plinking at distances like 50 - 100 yds.

I don't really know, I havent the foggiest of how QK works. Well maybe the foggiest, but no practical experience!

[steve2267]

I was under the impression from posts by Roger, I think (P8triot) that it is best to become proficient (at least competant) with the sights first.

Is this not the case? Or should I ask is it really better to learn QK first/or only? Only does not seem like the best option, I know my sights work nice when plinking at distances like 50 - 100 yds.


I guess it would depend on what one wants to do? Plinking and general marksmanship (i.e. target shooting) require sight usage which means one needs to understand how sights work, how to adjust them (if they are not fixed), how to apply kentucky windage etc.

However, if the primary firearms use will be for defensive purposes, and if we are discussing sidearms... since the vast majority of self defense employment of sidearms is inside 7 yards, and if QK is deadly accurate out to at least 7 yards for the average person, much further for some (especially those willing to put some additional time into the technique)... then why not start with Quick Kill? In fact, I believe an argument could be made for taking a virgin defensive pistol or revolver shooter and starting them with 1/2 hip. Then progress to two handed quick kill.

Now, having said that... safety is of paramount importance, at least for the civilian shooter (maybe not military conscripts getting ready for battle in short order). So... I also don't see any reason why one could not explain the sights, how they work, how to use them etc. during the general weapon and safety familiarization portion of initial training. So maybe you shoot a box of ammunition using sights... but as soon as you start doing holster work, you start with 1/2 hip, then progress to two handed Quick Kill. Now, once you get past 7 yards or so, the new shooter probably will need to transition to sight usage, although this will be highly shooter dependent.

Quick Kill works because homo sapiens has the inate ability to point his / her index finger at an object without sighting down the axis of the finger. For close in work, I don't see why one couldn't start with Quick Kill.

Now, have said all that... I will caveat everything I just wrote by stating that I am (and was) talking off the top of my head, and nothing herein should be construed as to how Brownie is structuring his courses. He and Roger may have very different ideas on how to structure the courses, and for sound reason. So, this is all my personal opinion. For the record, I started combat pistol shooting (IDPA) after I bought my first 1911 post 9/11 and applied for my CCW permit. So I've only been at this for less than 5 years. I was taught by local Denver folks the modern draw technique to a Weaver or modified Isosceles, and how to use my sights (which I already understood from hunter safety class and summer camp in my childhood). I became aware of QK when Brownie posted his first written (and copyrighted) description of the technique about two years (?) ago and it really took off last spring for me personally... and was verified / confirmed / tweaked and polished last October at Sightless in Tucson.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense in this post. If not, or you have any other questions... ask away! That's what TFF is all about.

[Guantes]

DH,

Mostly the breeze:)
I have given her basic safety and shooting instruction with most of my handguns. She shoots fair and gets a refresher once or twice a year.

The only time she is close to a gun is to a 36 under her bed when I will be gone for some time. I have not pushed her as I don't think she could drop the hammer if she had to. Rather than fight about it, I handle that part of our life.

Besides when we were first together, her mother who was terminally ill told me, "You know its your job to protect her.".:o

[Brownie]

RAM,

"I was under the impression from posts by Roger, I think (P8triot) that it is best to become proficient (at least competant) with the sights first."

I agree with that thought process as stated by Roger [ P8triot on another site ]. I learned sights first and then was intro'ed to threat focused shooting some decade + later.

My personal thoughts are one learns proper handhold, sight alignment and trigger control, and in doing so, comes to understand how to become one with the gun. It ferrets out weak links that cause problems like mashing the trigger, jerking the trigger, milking the tirgger, where the trigger finger needs to sit on the trigger. [ did I mention trigger issues ? ;) ].

It ferrets out handhold issues as well. There are several that can be problematic and a determining factor in making hits and may need to be corrected or at least addressed.

These potentials are brought to light by watching someone trying to use their sights and hit things. I can, and do watch shooters and within a few reloads determine if there are issues and explain to the student how to solve the particular problem they may be experiencing. That might be slight adjustments, or major work depending on what the shooter has ingrained as bad habits.

Quick Kill comes into it's own when things used in sighted fire come together like trigger control and proper handhold. If a shooter is a poor sighted shooter and is having issues, these same issues can affect their performance within Quick Kill.

One needs to master the handgun and be able to point it, and keep it on the threat through proper handhold and trigger control. That is not something threat focused shooting will accomplish very well, and though one can get to the same level of competance with Quick Kill, QK was never meant, nor should it be used to teach someone how to master the control of the weapon itself.

Sighted fire points the proper way to developing a higher level of ability. If a shooter has mastered the sighted fire, they will be able to concentrate on what they are learning under our Quick KIll program.

Quick Kill can be and is a shortcut to hitting with fast combat accuracy without the buckets of brass at your feet and time on the firing line [ by that I mean most shooters who shoot long enough get to a place where some of their shooting is without conscious thought ].
If a new shooter or one who has not mastered sighted fire attempts Quick Kill, can we assume the shortcut is thwarted by their lack of trigger and handhold being subconsciously ingrained? I think so.

I am of the opinion, and Roger agrees, that we have the students shoot a standards drill at their present skills levels. We will record the information. This will likely result in most students, if not all, using their sights for the standards shooting.

The "standards" does two things. It brings out the students strengths or weaknesses that may need to be addressed by the instructors during the day, and it gives us their base of skills at the beginning of the course of instruction compared to the same "standards" near the end of the course.

This will give the instructors and the individual students a knowledge base of their progress over the span of one or two days in a quatifiable percentage of improvement. The trainers are going on the assumption the students, when left to shoot their initial standard will use their sights, and the final standards will be perfomed utilizing their newly acquired threat focused skills. Should be quite interesting for everyone involved.

I hope that clarifies my own thoughts on the subject and about which should come first, the chicken or the egg.;)

Now, to stay on topic and back to Doc's question---My wife can and does hold her own pretty well, like Guantes wife, she is not "into" the same things, but can be left with a firearm or two and will give most a run for their money, especially if they are threatening her horse in anyway. Then hell hath no fury like the little woman I live with. Both Steve and Roger can attest that when it comes to her horse, watch out. It's probably safe to say I'm second fiddle to that four legged creature in the corral

[Gunslinger808]

One of Annarchy's favorites:

[JMusic]

When My bride and I first met she wanted me to meet her family. They lived on a ridge close to Morehead KY. Stamper ridge (her maiden name) Gods country anyway I met her brother and this was when the SKS's just were being imported and you could by them for 60 bucks. Her brother had just bought one and we were out on the porch shooting it. He said AL (Alice) is purdy good with this and had her come out. She tucked the stock under her arm and blazed away. I fell head over heals for her after that.

She has her ccw and carries a NAA mini in 22 mag in a Coronado purse at all times. I put large rosewood grips on for her. She has a S&W 317 that she practices with and has at her bedside a J frame 651 that I have tuned with wolf springs and put K model night sights on for her. This was my trail gun but she liked it. She is small of stature and does not like recoil so I keep her at the 22 mag level but continue to push her toward something bigger. She also has a surefire 6P and has had awareness training. So when out she has peper spray, 6P light and a NAA mini. She is a gentle soul and has made me a better person but she will pull the trigger no doubt.
Jim

[Annarchy]

One of Annarchy's favorites:

Ummmm.....full auto.......:D