Getting Off the "X"

[7677]

For the longest time firearms training trained people in marksmanship type of shooting and not combat shooting. The stress of battle and the human reaction to stress was removed from the equation. What has been missing is combining the art of fighting, shooting and movement into one workable system. This is something I have been working on for the last 10 years.

Fairbairn and Sykes where the first to write about it and they noticed during times of stress their officers would crouch. The amount of crouch was usually determined by pucker factor of the incident. When we are getting prepared to fight, most people will lower their base, which is also a pre-attack indicator. When you lower you base and move dynamically you do not bounce as much as you do when you run normally.

The drop step was designed to allow a fighter to cover the reactionary gap and strike their opponent in one fluid move and the foot should hit the ground at the same time the strike hits the person. The spring of the movement also gives the strike added power.

What I have found is that lateral movement to 3 or 9 o’clock is not as fast as going to the 1-2 or 10-11 o’clock positions. However, any direction the shooter moves in the shooter has to make the conscience thought to get the foot moving before trying to draw their weapon because it takes longer to get the mass of the body in motion then it does for the arm to draw the weapon although it appears that the movement and the draw happen simultaneously.

Speed is what rules the game here and in more then in one way. The standard I set for myself is to start from a position of surrender, move, draw and shoot five rounds in under two seconds from concealment and the last round is fired before my third step. In these cases smooth is fast and the smoother you become the faster you will be and the secret I have found is the only thought is to get the feet moving and allow the sub-conscience mind to do the rest.

The best way to prepare for this is to practice your drawstroke from concealment and then add movement to it. First, one step then two, etc. and continue to increase your speed until you make a mistake and then back off a notch and work it.

[shaman]

7677,

The drop step is something I'm not familiar with. I'm not trying to take the momentum out of what you wrote, since I think it's pretty smart thinking from my limited experience.
Could you go into a more basic explanation of what the drop step is?
Is it simply a crouching fist step that effectively drops your upper body while moving you off the x?
Sorry 7677, I'm not very up on my terminology. Except for your sig. Were you in the 2REP?

[JMusic]

(However, any direction the shooter moves in the shooter has to make the conscience thought to get the foot moving before trying to draw their weapon because it takes longer to get the mass of the body in motion then it does for the arm to draw the weapon although it appears that the movement and the draw happen simultaneously. )

There is more to it than just mass. In weapons take aways you are taught to move feet first then arms. Simultanious movement is always slower. This was taught in the several SD and martial arts courses I attended and a very good observation. Starting from hands up is also a good system. It gives the opponent the preception of beiing in control right up to the point they ain't.:cool: Dulling their sences slightly as they somewhat relax. Good post.

Jim

[Guantes]

Good post.

Many valid points were included. However, IMO, I think that sometimes those who read of advancing concepts and methods grasp them and train them but they do not understand the overall strategy, at least as I see it. That strategy, whether with gun, knife, empty hand or a combination thereof, is to maintain a level of "performance" (for lack of a better word) beyond that which the opponent can maintain. If that can be done until he is defeated, the chances of prevailing are excellent. If that cannot be done due either to the lack of skills on your part or the abundance of, or superior skills on the part of the opponent, the chances of prevailing are poor.

[Guantes]

Something I forgot to mention befor on the crouch. Back befor vests, we were taught that the crouch also helped prevent your being knocked back off your feet if you got hit. The logic being that it was better to fight on your feet, than from your back.

[JMusic]

Higher Level of Performance.

Good point G. Though I have done just that over my lifetime, I never realized it until I read your post. It is something my father instilled, knowing but never telling. Thanks

Jim

[7677]

Jim and Gloves,

Good points...and now we move to the necessary mindset:

Gunfighting is a thinking man's game and Mindset is the name of the game. One of the things that I harp on but I cannot teach people to do is to be aware of their environment and search for threats and to avoid them. If you see three suspicious guys by your car, then wait for them to leave or call security or the police. I cannot count the times when victims young and old have said the following two phases when I interviewing them...I never saw them or I know the guy was up to something but I didn't want to seem impolite.

The most likely self defense situation most of will ever be in is a robbery. In these situations, the criminal is not intent on killing you but taking something from you. However, do not think for a minute that the criminal will not kill you if it is necessary to get what he wants. Even if you find yourself behind the reactionary curve, there are many ways out of this situation. You have to make the criminal believe you are not a threat to them and put them at ease and keep them occupied while you wait for a opportunity to take the initiative. In the cases where people have been successful, they do not loose their cool and when the criminal tell them to give them their wallet they draw their weapon and shoot the criminal to the ground. If it was me, I would most likely draw then shoot and move at the same time while I shoot him to the ground. However, my cue to start would be the moment I saw him take his eyes off me while I was retrieving my wallet I'd take a step off line and shoot him to the ground before he knew what him.

Now, when I spoke of movement, it is the necessary amount to get your body off line of your opponent's muzzle which is usually one or two steps at this distance and in other case dynamic movement.

The important thing that readers tend to gloss over is:
You have to make the criminal believe you are not a threat to them and put them at ease and keep them occupied while you wait for a opportunity to take the initiative and if I saw him take his eyes off me for a second while I was retrieving my wallet I'd take a step off line and shoot him to the ground before he knew what him.

[7677]

7677,

The drop step is something I'm not familiar with. I'm not trying to take the momentum out of what you wrote, since I think it's pretty smart thinking from my limited experience.
Could you go into a more basic explanation of what the drop step is?
Is it simply a crouching fist step that effectively drops your upper body while moving you off the x?
Sorry 7677, I'm not very up on my terminology. Except for your sig. Were you in the 2REP?

The drop step is step that covers the distance between you and your opponent to deliver a strike. The timing in this move is important and the strike should land before or simultaneously as the lead foot hits the ground. The forward movement generate power and this technique can be used in a neutral stance or from the crouch.

We have to remember that if we are approached by a criminal, the criminal is reading our non-verbal body language. If we immediately lower our base and blade our body, we have indicated that we are getting ready to fight which does not deescalate the situation or lull them into a situation where you can surprise them.

In close quarters combat, you may very well have to employ some h2h techniques before going to your gun.

My sig line comes from the 2nd ACR (Heavy) Battle Group which I was a part of during the first gulf war.

[Guantes]

Once again, no suprise, a really good informative post.

I think awareness has in recent years has received the attention it deserves. One part of it that still does not receive as much attention is preactivity awareness. In other words, the awareness that certain times of the day and locations are better avoided in the interest of self preservation. As an example, the Wallmart or 7-11 gas stop are probably considerably less of a threat at two in the afternoon, than at ten at night. Knowing that neighborhood "x" while relatively safe during daylight, is not so after dark and schedulling activities accordingly.

[7677]

Gloves,
I agree with you there. When I was in partol, I worked evenings and deep nights and the we were always getting calls at the projects which usually slowed down at around 4 am. I was asked if I wanted to work some overtime and stayed over to work the day shift and to my surprise we didn't get a single call in the projects until after 2pm and it was to report someone had stolen their "Target" shopping cart from in front of their apartment and by 4pm shift change the calls were stacking up.

I'll also share a old post on movement I wrote awhile ago:

In past systems, the student was taught to make the gunfight fit the techniques they were taught. The reason one needs to be able to shoot and move any direction is due to the fact that the circumstances surrounding the incident dictate which technique(s) you will use, the direction(s), and the speed which you can move.

The problem that I see with most shooters is that movement is not ingrained into their psyche and they are preprogrammed to follow the squared range rules. Movement alone becomes the stumbling block when you attempt to integrate the two together. This problem usually does not happen moving straight in but with dynamic movement to the oblique angles.

The shooter must get their feet moving before they attempt to draw. If I had a penny for every time I’ve seen a student attempt to draw their weapon then remember that they should be moving then rush to get their feet moving and rush the draw and the first round on target I would be retired already. Movement and the draw should be smooth and happen almost simultaneously and the eyes should focus where you want your rounds to impact. These things should happen in the shooter mind without having to think about it. However, under pressure, the kind found in classes, the student doesn’t want to screw up and the conscience mind does not allow the sub-conscience mind to do what it would normally do. In every class I have taught, at one point or another every student will attempt to think their way through the drill and end up missing the target.

So when you add two or more actions together you increase the difficultly and add a greater chance for the conscience mind to micro manage the subconscious mind. As tedious as it sounds a shooter has to spend the time practicing moving and shooting over and over again before it becomes second nature. There are a lot of variables that can go wrong in moving and shooting that can result in a missed first shot. Most of the time it is the result of student not focusing on the target but on the sequence of events that have to take place in order to complete the drill.

Lately, too many people have gotten too rapped up what direction is better when the reality is you better have them all covered because you can bet when TSHTF your pet direction will be the one direction you cannot use at the moment of truth.

The goal is to gain initiative and take the fight to our opponent and win. In some situations, stand and deliver, moving forward and/or moving to the rear is advisable. The downside to moving to the rear is the techniques that make it possible do not offer the best position(s) for the shooter to make hits after the initial shots are fired and the shooter moves in a linear (straight line) to cover. I teach this in situations where the shooter has or takes the initiative makes a pre-emptive strike while moving to cover. This brings us to situations where you might find yourself on equal initiative or behind the reactionary curve.

We all have heard that distance buys you time and options, well this is true but distance is only of beneficial before the fight starts and once you have allowed the threat to close that gap you now have to apply the technique(s) that give you the best chance for survival. We need to remember going straight to guns may not best answer either. The need for effective H2H skill are understated in the gunfighting community.

Distance is the key in determining the course of action and the amount of movement necessary to get off the line of attack. This may be as little as a single step close in or dynamic movement with directional changes further out. The number and the position(s) of opponent(s) will also factor into these equations. No one direction or movement is set in stone and directional changes based on your opponent's actions/movements in encouraged.

Based on the circumstances, the student must be able to decide which type of movement, direction, and angles that allow the student to move off line fluidly and dynamically without telegraphing their intent. The biggest problem that I see is the lack of fluid motion off the line of attack and too many people want to draw then move which is slow and telegraphs your intent. The student must understand angles of attack and this is paramount in increasing the odds of hitting your opponent without them hitting you. I'm moving straight forward towards my opponent I want my end point to be next to my opponent not directly in front of them (instead of ending at 12 I want to end at 1 o'clock). This way you are not running in a linear line. Moving toward your opponent in a linear fashion makes it easier for them to hit you. However, the student can change the angle of attack while on the move due to the opponent's actions or position(s).

Fighting is a thinking man’s game that requires sound judgment and decision making skills to create and implement a sound plan of action. A sound training program gives the student the necessary techniques to serve as building blocks for solving a wide range of circumstance and is what I strive for in my program.

[Dave James]

Don't see any thing for me to add.:D

[5shot]

Hi folks,

Haven't been by this way for a time.

Robin, great article on a Modern Day Gunfighter.

And BTW, you could easily pass for a long time local who lives out the road in the Superstitions, or was that a standin for you. :)

...........

As to getting off the X, here is a link to a couple of videos that show old pot belly getting of the X.

The frame by frame video shows the "steps" in the process for me, from the "unload or drop step" to moving. I just moved my natural way. With practice, I am sure anyone would be able to move quicker.

I also am practicing moving right, and it seems a bit easier. Next is to move at other angles, drop and shoot, etc....

www.pointshooting.com/getoffx.htm

[7677]

John,
I know you are just trying to present the best possible information but after watching that video I have to ask you have you read anything that I or others have written on getting off the "X"?

It takes you .80 of a second before your body starts to move off the "X" and you attempt to draw then move. As a point of reference, there are those of us that can draw and put two or more rounds on target or foul the draw stroke in less time then it takes you to move off the "X".

[5shot]

Tom,

60 years ago, I had a holster and a six gun, and I could draw and shoot the hec out of the bad guys.....

A few months ago, I bought my first "real" holster, an Uncle Mike's, so don't expect me to be high speed low drag after just a couple hundred reps. I also modified it some to fit my gun.

Now, millions of folks who own guns, don't go around their homes packing, as far as I know.

So most, if there was trouble about, would just have their gun in hand as is supported by the SOP 9.

I bought the holster, and used it in making the video - which shows movement and hitting the target while moving - to get an idea of just what is meant by getting off the X for those who carry daily. It also shows frame by frame, the body movements that are involved.

Moving right along, would movement in an in home situation, be a good idea?

Sure if possible.

Why make things easy for the bad guy.

Would I be quicker drawing and getting off the dime with a few years (up to 60) of practice. Sure.

The positive side of this, is if an old creaky bozo, can do what the video shows, just think of what some younger and dedicated pistolero could accomplish.

Probably move-draw-shoot-reholster and quickern I could blink.

:)

Best regards,

PS

The frame by frame video shows me unloading and dropping down first and drawing second, so I did start to move first. Drawing with the right hand while moving left seems to be a counter move, body mechanics wise, but if I didn't at least start to move, I seemed to freeze in place until the draw was well under way.

I also understand that you are a lefty, so things could be different for you.

I have also found that it seems easier to move to the right and draw as that works better mechanically, or at least it does for me.

Got a video, and or frame by frame analysis, you can share?

[7677]

John,
I do not do videos and up to last month I kept my times from being public because it isn't about what I can do but what I can get a student to do.

You are dropping to your base and then moving which commonly happens when you are surprised. However, dropping to your base in close quarters combat situation telegraphs your intent to take action and wastes time in getting off the X. The crouch or dropping your base is not necessary to get off the line of attack and this is where the Combatives "drop step" comes into play. Note: the crouch and dropping your base has it place.

So we will first cover direction....instead of stepping to your 9 or 3 o'clock move forward at 45 degrees to the 10 to 11 o'clock and then draw your weapon as you are taking this first step and shoot throughout your draw stroke as you pass the target.

The trick with movement is to make the conscience decision to take that first forward step, lean your body forward in the direction you want to move and your rear foot's heel should be raised and you take your first step. While this is going on, you should also be drawing your gun.

I can go from a position of surrender, move, draw from concealment, and zipper six rounds up the center of a target in under two seconds. The speed comes from doing things in one fluid movement.

With regards to your home...you should know the lay out of your home better then anyone else and you should utilize the various choke points and use cover/concealment to your advantage to deal with a home invader not standing out in the open.

[5shot]

Thanks Tom,

I just moved 7 feet and shot 5 shots at the 10 inch target, which was ten feet away, in 2 sec. That was starting with hands by my side, standing flat footed, and with no concealment garmet. Per the video, it looks like at least two hits were made.

I will work on smoothing things out and speeding them up a bit, and also will see if I can get my body to JUST MOVE from a normal "flat footed" standing position. I guess I don't quite understand how that is done, which is why a frame by frame video would help considerably.

Perhaps with a thousand or two reps, it will become clear. :)

Best regards,

[Brownie]

I don't want to detract and thread drift this topic Tom started any more than necessary so I'll just make this statement;

Robin, great article on a Modern Day Gunfighter.

First, thanks for the thoughts

The article content was edited [ of course ] and does not include 7677's involvement in developing the course of fire and many of the skills/techniques within the ITFTS program [ many of which werre not touched on in the article as I was only answering the questions the author asked of me.

7677's considerable knowledge where many of the threat focused skills are concerned is without peers IMO. It would have been nice to get the history of the course and how it was developed into the magazine article. Apparently the history behind the course of fire was not deemed germain to the the readers [ the focus of which is in what senior citizens can benefit from in it's content ].