Brownie
03-07-2006, 12:26 AM
It recently came to my attention that a certain instructor had apparently incorporated a fencing/long knife technique into his gun training course in Las Vegas.
I was sent a link to the small video clip he had up for enjoyment of others and was able to take a look-see of this "new" development. My curiousity got the best of me.
This "new" gunkata he had developed for self defense with a gun was something from the old world of Italian fencing masters, and something I am very familiar with, having known and practiced the technique since studying under Master at Arms James Keating back in the mid 90's.
It's a technique that requires perfect execution to be successful. The proper execution of which is not just the body's movement used within the technique but, of greater importance to success, the timing of when to make it. Without the timing, one will be early and lose or late and lose.
The technique is called "in quartata".
For a quick look at how not to and how to correctly perform an in quartata, see this link:
http://www.classicalfencing.com/class120205.shtml
Here's a description of the technique:
In Quartata - Italian for "In Quarter"
Most attacks are made to your inside line. With some fencers, that seems to be all they know to do. Normally you would parry these attacks and then riposte. You may, however, dodge the incoming blade and then riposte without parrying. In this, though, timing and position is key. The In Quartata involves twisting your body away from the incoming blade - using a quarter turn to your left, hence "quartata" - and then lashing out with a riposte. Two things to remember here: First, the blade must not touch your body at all. Second, you may not riposte until the opponent's blade has passed you by - in other words, the tip has moved to a place where there is no possible way it can score a touch. You should really wait another split second until he begins to withdraw his weapon as he realizes he missed - then nail him. You must make sure that his blade no longer presents a threat; for example, if your opponent lunges and you twist away so that his blade comes up two inches short but is still in line with your target, then you are still on the defensive - he may lunge a little farther or something and catch you. In Quartata should be used very sparingly, and if successful will really demoralize your opponent.
This link actually will show the proper execution of in quartata.
http://www.nicholasroussos.com/fencing/inquartata.html
After watching this clip of his "in quartata" with the gun, I felt compelled to write and inform that if you see this clip, you need to be aware that what he is doing is not even close to the correct form of in quartata.
When he states he trained under Jimmy Keating, the trainer actually spent three days with Jim under Jim's Bowie program, and that is where he learned the in quartata.
First, Jim did not show this gun trainer what you see the trainer use in his short clip. Students who were shown this in the Vegas class believe what they saw is "in quartata" as taught by Jim Keating, and that is false.
Second, he was not the first to use the term "in quartata" where the gun was involved. Matt Temkin, who posts on this site, was the first known trainer to use the term and show the technique in Jan 05 in Tennessee in a formal classroom structure.
I've talked with Matt since this trainers recent clip became public through his own advertising, and we both agree, the trainer in question doesn't understand the "in quartata" correctly and takes credit for being the first to use the term where the gun is introduced in the mix with this technique.
In fairness to this trainer, I understand he was not present when Matt demonstrated and addressed using the in quartata with a gun, though he was in the building.
The record is straight now for our members. It doesn't matter that they hear different on other forums, that the trainer takes credit for developing and incorporating the in quartata into a gun defense. The facts speak for themselves. All one has to do is watch the clip, and click the links I have supplied in this post to see for themselves the trainer is not using in quartata in any manner of accuracy.
I'll address the idea of using the in quartata with a gun at some future posting. That subject is another long post in and of itself.
I'm locking this thread as I do not want anyone making disparaging remarks about the trainer in question. My intent in this post was not to talk negatively about the trainer but to make sure the members and guests understand what In Quartata actually is, and why the technique taught by this trainer is NOT In Quartata.
I was sent a link to the small video clip he had up for enjoyment of others and was able to take a look-see of this "new" development. My curiousity got the best of me.
This "new" gunkata he had developed for self defense with a gun was something from the old world of Italian fencing masters, and something I am very familiar with, having known and practiced the technique since studying under Master at Arms James Keating back in the mid 90's.
It's a technique that requires perfect execution to be successful. The proper execution of which is not just the body's movement used within the technique but, of greater importance to success, the timing of when to make it. Without the timing, one will be early and lose or late and lose.
The technique is called "in quartata".
For a quick look at how not to and how to correctly perform an in quartata, see this link:
http://www.classicalfencing.com/class120205.shtml
Here's a description of the technique:
In Quartata - Italian for "In Quarter"
Most attacks are made to your inside line. With some fencers, that seems to be all they know to do. Normally you would parry these attacks and then riposte. You may, however, dodge the incoming blade and then riposte without parrying. In this, though, timing and position is key. The In Quartata involves twisting your body away from the incoming blade - using a quarter turn to your left, hence "quartata" - and then lashing out with a riposte. Two things to remember here: First, the blade must not touch your body at all. Second, you may not riposte until the opponent's blade has passed you by - in other words, the tip has moved to a place where there is no possible way it can score a touch. You should really wait another split second until he begins to withdraw his weapon as he realizes he missed - then nail him. You must make sure that his blade no longer presents a threat; for example, if your opponent lunges and you twist away so that his blade comes up two inches short but is still in line with your target, then you are still on the defensive - he may lunge a little farther or something and catch you. In Quartata should be used very sparingly, and if successful will really demoralize your opponent.
This link actually will show the proper execution of in quartata.
http://www.nicholasroussos.com/fencing/inquartata.html
After watching this clip of his "in quartata" with the gun, I felt compelled to write and inform that if you see this clip, you need to be aware that what he is doing is not even close to the correct form of in quartata.
When he states he trained under Jimmy Keating, the trainer actually spent three days with Jim under Jim's Bowie program, and that is where he learned the in quartata.
First, Jim did not show this gun trainer what you see the trainer use in his short clip. Students who were shown this in the Vegas class believe what they saw is "in quartata" as taught by Jim Keating, and that is false.
Second, he was not the first to use the term "in quartata" where the gun was involved. Matt Temkin, who posts on this site, was the first known trainer to use the term and show the technique in Jan 05 in Tennessee in a formal classroom structure.
I've talked with Matt since this trainers recent clip became public through his own advertising, and we both agree, the trainer in question doesn't understand the "in quartata" correctly and takes credit for being the first to use the term where the gun is introduced in the mix with this technique.
In fairness to this trainer, I understand he was not present when Matt demonstrated and addressed using the in quartata with a gun, though he was in the building.
The record is straight now for our members. It doesn't matter that they hear different on other forums, that the trainer takes credit for developing and incorporating the in quartata into a gun defense. The facts speak for themselves. All one has to do is watch the clip, and click the links I have supplied in this post to see for themselves the trainer is not using in quartata in any manner of accuracy.
I'll address the idea of using the in quartata with a gun at some future posting. That subject is another long post in and of itself.
I'm locking this thread as I do not want anyone making disparaging remarks about the trainer in question. My intent in this post was not to talk negatively about the trainer but to make sure the members and guests understand what In Quartata actually is, and why the technique taught by this trainer is NOT In Quartata.