CAR shooters and distance?

[evan1293]

Hey guys, just wondering what fellow CAR guys do in situations that require 15 yard+ shots? I like that CAR helps in moving laterally and getting off the X and I find that even at distances such as these, I prefer CAR while shooting and moving laterally. For a situation such as an active shooter in a shopping mall, which may require you to place very accurate shots and also move, how would you engage this type of threat at distances greater than 15 yards?... (provided that it is necessary to engage in this situation) Do you tend to stay with the extended position or push out to a weaver / apogee position or do you tend to go to some other type of position like iso?

Im about to do my first FOF session and Im really looking forward to some of the insight I may get from it especially for these types of issues. I know what works for me on the range but I have a feeling that FOF will be quite an eye opener for me.

[David Williams]

With CAR, the Apogee position is intended to be used when the shooter has the time and needs to take that well-aimed shot. The range at which you switch to the Apogee is largely up to you and is dependent upon your individual abilities.

The only real difference between the Apogee position and the standard Iso is the canted weapon. You're going to push the rear sight into the space that the front sight was just occupying, square your shoulders somewhat, and un-blade your stance. The biggest thing to remember about the Apogee is that you need to figure out whether you prefer to keep the weapon in the opposite eye or if you prefer to move it into the weapon-side eye.

Personally, I prefer to keep the weapon in the opposite eye (R Hand, L eye), which allows me to get a sort of stock-weld on my weapons-side bicep.

[Bryn Reynolds]

I obviously shoot C.A.R, and shoot it a a lot.

The advantages of the system for engaging anything you are likely to find in distances your home or office would present (~10-15 yards) are, to me, self evident, and have been discussed at length in other threads here and elsewhere.

Regarding shooting at threats (as a side note, I try not to call them "targets." Although we shoot at a lot of targets during C.A.R. and IPDS training, it most certainly is NOT a target/range application...) beyond that distance, I have to agree more and more with what Dave said above.

My first few range sessions with Paul Castle were spent in learning what I went there to learn: extreme CQB engagements. I didn't dwell a lot on targets past those above distances. I wanted skill-sets that would serve me well while making entries at work, and defending my home. He ingrained that in me, and how.

Distances past that point bring up the old adage: a handgun is just something to defend yourself with until you can get to your rifle. Or get the heck out of Dodge. I'm not going to stand there in a parking lot in the open and slug it out in with you at 25 yards with a handgun. I'm going to run to cover or to exfil completely.

That being said, there are occasions when you will need to engage threats past those distances with a handgun. In law enforcement, you often need to be offensive with a handgun in certain circumstances. Not every raid is pre-planned, and more often than not I have to draw my handgun in my regular uniform then I have to uncase my M4 in my SWAT uniform for pre-planeed offensives.

Also, there is that situation that Evan mentioned: that active-shooter in a mall 90 feet away and all you have is that handgun. There are circumstances that dictate you to be accurate with a handgun-only at those distances.

For me, having recently trained with Paul on some specialty applications, I really spent some time learning his Apogee, little-fingers-locked, cheek-weld postion. (Plus, I am also blessed to be left-handed and right-eye dominant.)
I now shoot at distance no other way. He had me hitting targets with precision at 50 yards with my GL22. That impressed me.

While the C.A.R. system is certainly NOT a range application, the Apogee postion we teach certainly has, for me at least, made me more effective at those longer ranges.

Bryn