Recomended Handgun for QK Training

[JMusic]

Ok don't want to get into a Glock bashing here or a 1911 sing along. What in the yoes guys opinion is the proper handgun for your training class. I originally was going to buy a bull barrel model 10. Probably still will but I think that may limit what I want to achieve. I have a BHP that would require some mods and have a Kimber CDP Pro in 45 acp. But that is limitting in rapid fire methods do to weight. So do I go with Glock or maybe the new S&W M&P? If so what caliber, 9MM? I shoot left handed and safeties need to be ambi. I don't have the same concerns of some about the safety of the Glock. I'm one of those who think right or wrong your trigger finger is the real safety. That is, as long as it will not fire when dropped.
Jim

[Desert Rat]

If you can find a reliable handgun that points dead-on in your hand, it will go a long way to improving your pointshooting skills. The decision of which gun is best is entirely subjective, based on your hand size, hand shape, and what guns are available on the market.

Glocks are good guns, and I'm a 1911 guy, but I've found the Springer XD to be the best pointshooting gun for me personally. Go with what fits you best, as long as you can expect it to be reliable, and just practice.

Your choices of an M-10, BHP, and 1911 are all solid. I don't think you could go wrong with any of them.

[JMusic]

I have to respectively disagree with your statement from Heinlein. My aim tends to be steadier during drink up to a point.:D I was also going to list the Springfield but think they are mostly in the same boat. I would hands down use the High Power but it needs an ambi safety and the rear sight was broken during an unfortunate accident:rolleyes: Just looking for some opinions. My hands are medium to small. I tend to wrap my index finger around the trigger guard of my weak hand. You know alot of bad habits. Just seeing what anyone else thinks. I have a model 27 Glock that stays in my consule in my car. It is a shooter! I really was prodding to see if anyone has tried the Smith MP and to see if I'm on the wrong track about this style weapon for the QK training classes. Good talking with you. Thanks for responding.
Jim

[steve2267]

Jim,

Whatever sidearm fits your hand, feels good, and seems to point naturally at what you look (to me, that goes hand in hand (pun intended) with feeling good in your hand), and is fairly robust and reliable. (We're going to shoot a bunch of rounds, so if a part breaks, have a spare part, or a spare gun.)

Browning Hi-Power should do just fine. Doesn't need to be tricked out. Glock 17/19/21/22/23/26/27 etc. should do just fine. 9mm blammo is cheaper. 1911s should be fine. If the new S&W M&P is reliable, it should work. I'd recommend six spare magazines, or six spare speedloaders if you go with a wheelgun (although I'd probably not do the entire class with a J-frame).

In short, whatever works for you, feels real good in your hand. Bonus points if it seems to point where you look.

For me, 1911 Commanders work really well.

[steve2267]

I would hands down use the High Power but it needs an ambi safety and the rear sight was broken during an unfortunate accident:rolleyes:

For a QK class... you will not need your rear sight. :D For a CLASS, if you feel comfortable shooting a Glock , then I don't see why you couldn't use a Hi-Power with the thumb safety off.

I don't have any feel for the S&W MP... other than the only S&W semi-autos that have my attention are their 1911s. All othe S&W semi's just never did it for me.

[RAM]

PLEASE don't shoot me, literally or figuratively!

"Any gun will do... If you will do" would seem to be an appropriate answer to the question! :eek:

Again, DON'T SHOOT:D

[RAM]

"Any gun will do... If you will do" would seem to be an appropriate answer to the question! :eek:


Where, have, I seen that? :confused: ;)

[JMusic]

Nothin but love here Ram!!! Guys you ain't helping much for a good excuse to buy a new gun. Lets say I go for a Glock. Not lets do it this way. What distances are we shooting? What are the durations at the stations and number of rounds? Are any stations utilizing aimed fire? Do you run through the stations shooting or do you run to the station to shoot? This may help.
Jim

[Brownie]

JM,

Proper training gun? :D

One without sights;)

You did say training gun right?

If you were to show up with a new M+P you'd only be reloading a lot more in my classes.;)

I have the sightless 45 gov model, a first gen g-17 9mm, and a model 65 bull barrel I use in the classes presently. The 65 doesn't get used but it is there and could be.

The ammo we expend in one day? 700-800 rds. Two days? 1500 or so. Lots of reloading with a revo. But if you are up for it, you would be welcome to go for it.

My preference is the glock g17. It holds lots of bullets [ less reloading and less recoil ]. Why less recoil? Cause after 1500 rds in two days the hands can be quite worked and tired, and larger calibers will only make it more so.

One of the students used a g22 issue glock and after two days had major hotspots on his hands. He said it was a lesson learned about 40 over 9mm

I'd have no problem using a BHP, have had two of them and they would be fine for me if I wanted to use one.

I don't know if this answers your question or not, but if you need more input, you know where to find me JM:)

[steve2267]

Nothin but love here Ram!!! Guys you ain't helping much for a good excuse to buy a new gun.


Woops! Sorry! I hear the new MP is the finest PSing gun out there... and I'm just itching for someone to bring one to a class so I can rider her hard and put her away wet! :rolleyes:

Lets say I go for a Glock. Not lets do it this way. What distances are we shooting? What are the durations at the stations and number of rounds? Are any stations utilizing aimed fire? Do you run through the stations shooting or do you run to the station to shoot? This may help.
Jim

Roger said something on the order of 1600-1800 rounds in two days. Duration at stations? I'm not sure. I ran through six 8rd 1911 mags or so every exercise in Tucson, then watered up and reloaded.

We'll do some aimed fire at the very beginning of the class on day one to assess shooter skill. Probably some slow aimed fire at 5 or 10 yards to judge sight alignment and trigger control. After that one of the instructors will walk down the line with Vice Grips and a battery powered Dremel to remove front sites. (just kidding) After that, you will NOT be doing aimed fire. If we think you are using your sites, we'll tape them up.

No running to stations to shoot. On day 2 of the Advanced QK course there will be shooting while running.

Hope this helps.

[steve2267]

and have a Kimber CDP Pro in 45 acp. But that is limitting in rapid fire methods do to weight.

I typically shoot my carry gun: a Kimber Pro Eclipse II. I have not found it to be a limiting factor in the rapid fire methods or rapid fire strings... although I do seem to have to reload twice as often as the glocksters... :D

[JMusic]

Helps a bunch. I thought from what I was reading the 17 would be the right choice. Now its validated, thanks. Brownie I'm still lookin for our BB guns. Had one possibility but it was a rag. See Ya.
Jim

[Brownie]

7677 uses a g19, I use the g17, roger uses a g17, and steve is the holdout with his Kimber but he does bring enough mags so he keeps up.

I'll use the sightless 45 with no problem as well. But I don't have to shoot the rounds the students do in two days :D I like the gov45 platform and anyone using that type of weapon will find they are great for the classes as well. Sigs, Glocks, gov/commander 45's, BHP's, HK's, whatever the student usually carry's can be used really.

received okay on the bbguns.

Stay sharp

[JMusic]

My Kimber has the alloy frame. I've shot 500 rnds in a day. It is hard on the hands. I'll find me a Glock.
Jim

[Brownie]

Good move IMO JM. The G's shoot all day, the ammo is cheaper and it's what we do.

BTW- camp fires are known for singalongs, I'm partial to Coom by aah myself, hows that 1911 sing along go anyway? :D

[Spooky8]

As to good pointing handguns, guns that have a grip angle of greater than 107 degrees from grip tang to relation of the slide are usually good natural point and shoot guns......Oh hell, this all sounds like scientifc psycho-babble.....just shoot a gun that you can shoot well with....

Spooky8

Out:D

[Bugaboo]

Excuse to buy a gun? The Climbers, when asked why they climb mountains say: Because it is there. How about that? "Why did you have to buy another gun?" "It was there, darling, all alone." I believe you dont have to explain it to yourself, right?

[Dave James]

JM, I'm left handed also,, and right now I would lean toward the new Smith M&P, the interchangeable back strap allows it to fit my hand better, glocks just don't cut it for me,, short of that I would use my new SIG DAK.

P-35 would be a great gun to use also

[Ankeny]

I can understand shooting a gun that would allow a person to comfortably complete the class without undue fatigue. But wouldn't it make sense to perform the culminating exercises with every day carry gear? For instance, if I were to take a class, I would want to do the first day with a range gun (my 1911) out of a range holster (Blade-Tec) just for comfort. But the second day I would want to shoot my G-26 out of my Milt Sparks holster. Am I way off base?

Are you guys talking about getting a gun for training purposes that points naturally and also using that platform for carry?

[Guantes]

IMO, shoot what you carry, carry what you shoot.:D

[Brownie]

Ron,

In Tucson I had the sightless 45 on a OWB crossdraw and the glock IWB strong side and I alternated between the two all day when showing the next drill or technique.

I don't see any problem if you wanted to use two guns on two different days. Four guns in two days as well. The student should keep just a few things in mind when training with us.

Use a gun/s that run well and don't require a lot of fussing with relative downtime; something comfortable to shoot as rounds downrange is a high count per houronce we get rolling; have enough mags to sustain the round count till there's a break; and just relax and enjoy themselves.

Using EDC [ every day carry ] guns and gear makes sense. Then again, it's not something to worry about either. The only real difference in not using edc gear is the drawstroke or the weapon platform, and the skills are easily transferred between various weapons and carry rigs once you get back home and on your own range. Still it makes sense to stay with your normal gear as you are probably more comfortable with that set up from familiararity day in and day out.

Oh yes, everyone got to shoot the sightless 45 and there were NO misses. Letting them do so shows they understand QK and gives the student a real confidence boost [ that #10 Roger talks about ]

[JMusic]

Thanks for all the replys. I'm not married to one weapon for ccw. I have several I use and some I'm sure most people wouldn't approve of. As I write this my major carry gun that I would depend on distance shooting is a S&W 638. Not exactly a major weapon I know. I look at a class like this as an opportunity to get out and have fun with some like minded friends. I'm looking for the weapon or tool that will allow me to enjoy the course as much as possible. Don't get me wrong I have alot to learn but I'm just looking to have some fun.:)
Jim

[JMusic]

Next question what holster style is recomended? Again keep in mind I am looking for what would work well for the course not necessarly what is the best for ccw.
thanks
Jim

[Brownie]

So we have more in common each day JM.

I also shoot several types for ccw, not married to any one of them. Knowing what I know about the course in question;) , I'd be happy and having a good time with a g-17, g-19, g-30, sig226, sig228, BHP, Gov/commander 45, HK series like the P7-m13/m7 or USP, etc.

If it was single stack, I'd have at least 6 mags and if double stack I'd have at least 4 mags. I'd probably shoot a 9mm platform and just have a ball [ ball ammo that is :D ].

Edited to add: If I wasn't concerned with ccw mode [ which is a VM2 IWB ], the new Blade-tech Stingray [ OWB ] would my choice for the course.

[RAM]

Excuse to buy a gun? The Climbers, when asked why they climb mountains say: Because it is there. How about that? "Why did you have to buy another gun?" "It was there, darling, all alone."

To heck with the wife, How do I explain to my glocks that I'm bringing home a 1911? They will be devestated... probably even throw a malfunction at me!

I put a 9mm barrel into my G35 or 22 about 80% of the time because:

1-it's cheaper (really adds up when shooting over a case in a couple days)

2-It really does help keep from beating up the hands. I almost don't know I have changed to the 9mm but the hands are still going after 1500 or so. The change back to .40 is barely noticable til I shoot it a bunch.

[JMusic]

Thanks for the help Ram, I was to embarrassed to reply.
Your humble servant
Jim:rolleyes:

[RAM]

IMO, shoot what you carry, carry what you shoot.:D

Exactly, I train with Glock (G22/23), I carry Glock (G22/23), I have a G27 for a bug on the ankle, except for the pinky it feels and operates very close to the biggies and it uses the same spare mags.