Best Hi-cap 9mm for self defense?

[Brownie]

Whats your opinion regarding the best 9mm double stack you can carry for self defense?

Why?

[steve2267]

Probably a Glock 26 or Glock 19. For the ultimate in concealability for a double stack 9mm, the G26 is probably it. But if you are going to carry IWB, I think the G19 is the best all around. Smaller than a G17, the G19 conceals perhaps a bit better. With a longer barrel than a G26, the G19 should have better velocity. The slightly larger size of the G19 may also make it a better handling gun than the G26. With its legendary Glock reliability, good pointing characteristics, simple manual of arms... the G19 is probably the ultimate fighting handgun.

IMO, the only disadvantages to the G19 are the round it shoots, and it seems too fat. But its growing on me. (Not that I'm giving up my 1911 Commanders any time soon. :D )

[agalb]

All hail the Glock 19!

[Guantes]

Generally, a quality mfg, hi-cap that you shoot and handle well.

Specifically, I like the Beretta 92FS (I have 2)
Points:
1. All Metal - The frames while 7075-T6 aluminum are anodized in a sulfuric acid bath making the hardness and durability equal to steel.
2. Testing - Each receives a 55-65kpsi proof load befor magnafluxing.
3. Open Top Slide Design - Provides 180d ejection port, reduces faliures (malfunctions). The US Army rates the M9 good for an average of 20,000 rds b/t faliures. Allows canting the gun inward for malfunction clearances, for greater leverage. Enables easy direct loading, with an extractor claw designed for this, contrary to most mfgrs. This enables easier loading. You do not have to load a mag, rack, then extract the mag and insert another round into the mag and reinsert the mag to have a full load. You merely chamber load, then insert a full mag.
4. Firing Pin Block - Well designed, visible, easy to check.
5. Decocker/Safety - Multi-purpose/use.
6. Locking Block Design - When worn, only the locking block needs to be replaced, not the barrel or slide. Even if broken, will still be safe to use for approx 700 rds.
7. Chamfered Firing Pin Hole/Polished Breechface - Reduces the possibility that a bad or burred case will bind on the breechface, causing a jam. It also aids proper feeding when a primer is not properly seated with the cartridge head.
8. DA/SA - Allows SA firing at any point.
9. Magazines - Laser welded, rather than zipper welded, to enhance toughness and reliability.
10. Ease of Cleaning - Take down and reassemble in about 1 min blindfolded.
11. Concealability - I don't concern myself too much with this. The sheep I don't think about, the BGs I believe that b/t 50-50 and 80-20 will look at my face and my demeanor and figure that I am strapped.

:D :D

[Dino]

Whats best will always vary person to person. Hand size will be a factor so one must pick a gun that fits their hand. For me personally the Glock 19 gets my vote. Just about the perfect combination of size, weight, shootability, capacity, reliability, and ease of maintenance.

[DocH]

G19 for me for all the same reasons Dino specified. My 19 has never choked in 11 years of pretty hard use. If it ever goes belly up I'll probably replace it with a new G17 but so far,unlike me,it shows no signs of slowing down with age and use.
Steve mentioned it's only drawback being the caliber. I am a huge fan of the 45acp round,always have been.
Our local city PD issues the 127+P+ ranger. It's a Nationally accredited police dept,by the way,and has been for years.
In all of the officer involved shootings,and there have been quite a few,there was one shot fired by an officer and the incident was over.
The county police dept.issues 40's now ,but when they were using the 9 they used the 147gr ranger. Same story.Bang! finis!
Being in a position to aquire first hand information on these shoots has sold me on both the ranger loads,and that's what I use almost exclusively.
All the shootees were deceased at the scene except for one.
A hispanic male tried to back up and run over a Sgt.who fired one round. It went thru the back glass of the Camaro,through the back of the driver's seat,and into the perp. He spent a full 3 months in ICU and was resuscitated a couple of times,and had a couple of surgeries. He'll never be the same.
All these shoots are a matter of record and can be easily confirmed.
I've been carrying a G30 thru the cold months,but I feel just as secure with my old G19 loaded with either of the ranger loads.
I'm very hesitant to dub any round a one shot stopper.Nothing does it every time,but these Winchester loads work "reeel good."

[Brownie]

A california dept has 9 for 9 stops [ ceased to be a threat or died ] with one round using the Ranger 147's.

It's what I've carried in my G-17 for two years, and it was good to hear of it's track record by police on one dept. just recently.

Now we hear the 127's are working well, thats good news. I second the Rangers for 9mm loads. I have no problem carrying the G-17 and don't worry about stopping aggressions if it happens.

My 45's are stoked with Ranger 230 standard velocity when I carry them on rare ocassions.

BTW- to answer my own question:

The best hi-cap 9mm? The original G17 IMO. I have a first gen that has tens of thousands of rounds through it. Second choice for me is the Sig 226/8 series. Both are utterly reliable right out of the box. I also now own a 3rd Gen G-17 as my EDC and has 1400 rds through it in a month with no hitches.

[Guantes]

I have recently been carrying Federal HST 147s. They seem to be building a good rep and they have one hell-of-a big hole in the end. Otherwise GD 124 +P.

[DocH]

I've also heard good things about the HST's performance.

[JMusic]

BHP I am far from a Glock knocker actually own one but the BHP is one of the easiest guns to shoot and hide. Accuracy is outstanding. With that said I am currently looking for a G17 to get some leasons from our instructors here. Not becuase I think they are the best pistol but they are as close to a revolver mentality as you can get. Which in my opinion allows you to just concentrate on shooting.
Jim

[steve2267]

BHP I am far from a Glock knocker actually own one but the BHP is one of the easiest guns to shoot and hide. Accuracy is outstanding. With that said I am currently looking for a G17 to get some leasons from our instructors here. Not becuase I think they are the best pistol but they are as close to a revolver mentality as you can get. Which in my opinion allows you to just concentrate on shooting.
Jim

Hey Jim! I'm a 1911 guy... your BHP is welcome at any of my classes! :D :D :D

Unfortunately, Brownie had to qualify his question with "double stack", thus precluding my extolling the virtues of my new 9mm Commander! :D

[SPG]

I am kind of partial to Walther P99 and Federal 9bp-le 115 +p+ :p SPG

[JohnN]

I have been a long time user of the 1911 platform and have had some nice custom built pieces built over the years. Though not in law enforcement I generally carry everyday and have an appreciation for what features are necessary in a self defense gun. That said, I have been using Glocks over the last year and a half and have been favorably impressed with there reliability and carryablity. Recently however, I acquired a S&W MP 9mm and so far it has impressed me with its ergonomics, reliability and accuracy. It has a very familiar 1911 feel to it. 1200 rds so far about three quarters of those with the gun dry with no malfunctions, a good start. Time will tell if the M&P will perform as well as Glocks but so far I may have found a replacement for my 19.

John

[K-9]

Glock 19! 147 gr. Gold Dots first choice, 147 gr. Ranger T's 2nd choice.

The guns is sweet. Easy to carry and conceal in Kramer IWB#3, decent amount of rounds. Feels great and shoots great. My Favorite. I like it so much I own 3 of them! No need for anything else.

[JMusic]

I've been carring a Glock lately God forgive me.
Jim

[Brownie]

Jim,

I believe he has, he really has.

Must be all that "living at the foot of the cross" you've been doing all your life :eek:

ps, I told you I'd get Donny's comment in here one day---Tell that brother-in-law I really enjoyed his humor and shooting skills with YOUR gun :D

[JMusic]

I will. He's ben bragging about out shooting me at the last seminar. I'll have to kick him in the knee or something before the next one.:D You did recall partaking in the finer food and drink while here. You have to admitt the 108 octane jet fuel wasn't bad.
Jim

[Brownie]

I had never been fortunate enough to taste the "jet fuel" he had. Even at my advanced age, there are new things in life to experience, one never knows where they'll find the "new", makes living all worthwhile for moments like that one doesn't it?;)

He's ben bragging about out shooting me at the last seminar. I'll have to kick him in the knee or something before the next one

We'll just make him run more the next time, that'll settle him down some:cool:

[shaman]

I like CZ products because they fit my hand very well. I have big hands passed down to me by generations of farmers and sailors. The CZ feels better and finds where it should be in my hand better than anything else I can buy over the counter. However, it is a long reach to the trigger, so you'd better have a long finger.

The quality is high enough for me. It's a reliable weapon and it's finished well. You can disassemble it and see some tooling marks, but for me, the proof is in how it does its job. And, it does fine.

It holds 16+1 rounds. Plenty of ammo.

Its kinda neato to have something offbeat, but still regarded with a modicum of respect by other gunnies.

If ever there are any problems, CZ-USA is more than happy to take care of them.

The CZ85's ambi controls sold me on it over the less expensive 75b model.

Great gun.

[flanker]

I sure would give the S.A. XDs a look.;)

[Brownie]

One of my female students was shooting a new subcompact hi cap XD 9mm, similiar to the g26 I carry.

NIB, the gun ran for 3-400 rds flawlessly without cleaning. It also was able to shoot one hole groups at 12 and 15 feet. I liked it, it fit well in the hand, the grip was not too big and the recoil was negligable.

If I didn't already have the glocks, the XD's would be getting a hard look.

[oregonshooter]

Glock G17

Great fit, light weight, probably one of the most reliable handguns ever made, no cleaning required, no lubrication required, has THREE safeties (j/k) and packs 17+1 :)

http://oregonshooter.com/images/EDC_07-13-2006.jpg

[7677]

My vote is for the G19 for primary carry and a close second would be the XD. For a pure shooting gun the CZ85 cannot be beat.

[Desert Rat]

Once again I will chime in on the excellence of the XD as one of, if not the best all around 9mm's out there. I've had mine now for just over a year, and so far, not a single jam or malfunction through around two thousand rounds or so. I will mention though that with the placement of the slide release, if you're used to shooting pistols with the high-thumbs grip like an old 1911 shooter like me does, you can occasionally hold the lever down accidentally, and the slide won't lock back on the last round. I had this problem at first, 'til I modified my hold. Now it doesn't happen very often at all.

Grip angle is great for those used to the 1911, BHP, or CZ-75, so there's no need to retrain your hand like you might with a Glock. Fit and finish is great, the checkering that's molded into the grip is perfect, and it doesn't have any finger grooves, which I like. The sights are apparently identical to the Sigs'.

I'm thinking of getting an XD-9SC for day to day concealment, but I may just hold out and wait for Springfield to get their XD-45SC on the market. And now that I mention it, I've got to say how freakin' awesome my XD-45 is! Hardly bigger than my XD-9, but packing fourteen rounds of .45's makes this one of the most size efficient guns ever. Easy on the recoil, a good trigger, and the Melonite treatment that is supposedly identical to the Glocks' Tenifer round out the package.

So far I've put five hundred rounds of mixed stuff through mine without any malfunctions at all.

But to get the post back on track, I never though I would be as thrilled with any 9mm as I've been with my XD-9. With its bi-tone finish, it looks good and is seemingly rust-proof. It holds seventeen rounds, which is less than a Glock, but I'll take the one round trade-off for the better feeling gun.

I'm not trying to besmirch the Glock or anything, though. Glocks are great guns. Last year I was trying to decide between a G-19 and an XD, so I went to a couple of different ranges and spent a couple of hundred dollars testing different guns. After shooting around a dozen different Glocks and a half-dozen XD's, I made my choice of an XD based on the feel of the gun, which pointed very natural for me, the fact that I shot it better than the Glocks, and because I wouldn't have to pay an extra $150 to have Robar reshape the grip so it would point dead on for me.

The G19 is smaller than the XD Service, and it has the ability to use the 17, 19 or 33 round mags, which does give it a certain edge over the XD, plus the mags are usually alot cheaper.

You can't go wrong with either gun, but if you shoot or carry the 1911 and the like, an XD would be a better choice, IMO.

[7677]

I like the XD. However, it is a fairly new design which I'm watching closely especially the new 45acp. However, 500rds is not a whole lot of rounds to base reliability on. Brownie has personally seen over 2,000rds from my G19 go down range with zero malfunctions. I have had good luck with the G19. I bought my first G19 in 1995 and put about 15,000 of +P+ and another 10,000 of ball through it until my father talked me out of it. My current duty gun is a G19, I have probably shot over 20,000rds from it and the only malfunctions have been with the older frangible ammunition, which cause all types of malfunction with every gun on the range.

[Juna]

Best 9mm carry? Depends on what you want. Here's what I think:
FULL SIZE:
Steel: CZ 75BD
Polymer: H&K USP or XD 5"

COMPACT:
Steel: H&K P7M8
Alloy: CZ 75D PCR
Polymer: H&K P2000 or XD 4"

SUBCOMPACT:
CZ 2075 RAMI
XD 3"

POCKET:
KelTec P11

Just my $.02 :D

[DonGlock26]

I'd go with the G19 for all around best choice. G-26 for just CCW.

My Dept. used 147gr Golddots for years. One Perp was DRT with a shot from arm pit to opposite shoulder. Expansion and Penetration were perfect.

[KenpoTex]

Best 9mm? The Glock family (17, 19, or 26 depending on how you're going to carry it).

I personally carry a 19, close to 4,000 rounds since I bought it about a year and a half ago w/o a single malfunction.

[jdsumner]

Although being the fng on the forum, I will venture into the fray and offer my opinion (since, like other certain orifices, I have one ). I like the g19. Mine has been reshaped somewhat to fit my hand, but I love it. I am a 1911 guy through and through. But, after shooting the g19 with all those rounds without reloading, I got kinda hooked on the hi cap thing. Still, being a 1911 guy, I was now in search of the Holy Grail. And I found it in the form of the STI Tactical 4.15 in 9mm. 18 plus 1 of +p wonderfulness!! In a 1911 format.
That being said, I know the STI is not everyone's cup of tea. So, in a general answere, if I had to recommend a hicap 9, hands down it would be a g19. Its affordable, reliable, parts are easy to find (if you were to need any), g17 mags work (as backups, house/car mags), its easy to conceal, and simple to learn on, shoots a perfectly servicable and managable round in ranges from standard to +p+.

Dan

[JMusic]

I'm showin my age but the GP has always been my favorite. It is one of the most naturaly pointing guns I have owned. Exceptional accuracy. dependability. and proven in many conflicts through out the world. Plus its endorsed by Moses himself. How can you go wrong.:D

Jim

[Scouse]

The Glock19, spare magazine a Glock17 one, it has two extra rounds.

The only new change, Truglow sights, they are on my carry G19, and my IDPA/USPSA Glock17, the fiber optics in daylight are incredible! Also the best night sights ever.
Instant acquisition, huge difference in shooting on the move, for me.

[Beagles747]

I have to agree for me it's the G19 as well. My spare mag is a G17 mag with a plus 2 in it for 19 extra rounds. Sometimes I carry the G19 with a plus 2 as well so it's basically the same as carrying a G17, which would be 17+1.

I really like the 19 because of its size and not having to lose the capacity.

I'm really a big fan of the Glocks. It wasn't always that way. I have a G17, G19 & G30. I also had a G26 but sold it. I think I'll be getting another G26 in the future. I kind of miss it when I’d like to have something a little smaller to hide.

-John

[Scouse]

John, the first generation of the plus 2 end caps could take a hit, and fly apart! make sure your own is one of the new ones.

[Brownie]

+2's should be the 7151's with the two part setup for the newer drop free's.

Am I correct in the idea that the first gens won't fit the new mags Scouse?

[Beagles747]

John, the first generation of the plus 2 end caps could take a hit, and fly apart! make sure your own is one of the new ones.

I actually had a non-factory plus 2 on my mags and one of them blew off so no more of those! Nothing like turning a great SD gun into a single shot paperweight! :D

-John

[Scouse]

+2's should be the 7151's with the two part setup for the newer drop free's.

Am I correct in the idea that the first gens won't fit the new mags Scouse?


Don't know Brownie, the nice guys at Glock will tell you. But for the +2 compared to the gone! 17 or 15! (G17 or G19) my advise, forget the + 2s.

I carry a G19, but the spare mag; is a G17, a safe +2.

[rmeron]

I don't have any trouble concealing and shooting a Smith&Wesson model 915.
I carry it in a Tucker Cover-up plus.

[AZ Husker]

Until a few weeks ago, I would have absolutely said the G19. Then I obtained a G32 in .357. What a workhorse in the same frame! With a simple drop-in conversion barrel, you're back to shooting cheap 9mm's for practice.

[Scouse]

Until a few weeks ago, I would have absolutely said the G19. Then I obtained a G32 in .357. What a workhorse in the same frame! With a simple drop-in conversion barrel, you're back to shooting cheap 9mm's for practice.


Hi AZ,

What difference in recoil, velocity, over 127g +P+, could you comment?

Awsome looking cartridge!