Armored SUV Tires...or lack thereof

[Wardawg]

Hi all,
I'll give a short background to set up my question. I'm currently working on a recon team in a high/extreme threat environment. We run B7 Armored Land Cruisers both on and off road. I've been working in Armored SUV's for several years but the mix of on/off road (40% onroad, 60% off-road) is relatively new to me. Blowouts (and the subsequent rollovers) have been an issue during the on-road driving for other teams on the contract. Most of incidents that I've seen thus far are the result of too much speed and under-inflated tires (not a big suprise there). Fortunately my team hasn't had a rollover (even more fortunately for ME since I'm responsible for training them), but we need different tires and I'm hoping one of you has some experience with off-road run-flats for heavy armor. Currently we are using a mix-and-match of tires (not by my choice I assure you) and I'm still fighting the underinflation battle (but am currently winning that one and getting the tires inflated properly) and I'm trying to put together a good proposal for new tires. I'm limited to internet research and my internet connection is about as reliable as my ex-wife so any knowledge any of you can share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance and I enjoy reading your posts when I get the chance.

[Brownie]

Wardawg,

Welcome to the forum, stay sharp wherever you are.

I can't help you with your question, hopefully someone who has the knowledge will get into this one for us.

[David Williams]

Wardog -
Welcome aboard. As you stated, most of my experience with blowouts has been a combination of over-aggressive driving and under-inflation; no tire out there is going to compensate for an inexperienced or reckless driver.

However, I do know of at least one vehicle-armoring company that uses heavy-duty Michellin ten-ply tires with run-flat inserts for off/on road vehicles.
I'm not sure if you're simply looking for leads, or for specific information, but I would advise against the latter here in open forum.

There is a resident tactical driving instructor that posts here, though I don't know if he'll see your post in a timely manner.

[Brownie]

I spoke with our Mod for this subforum this morning after making contact via email when Wardawg's post popped up. He's made contact with a professional he knows in this area and is awaiting a response. Hopefully an answer with be forthcoming once he hears back from the guy.

[Wardawg]

Thanks David,
To clarify, all I'm looking for is some people who have used one type of tire or another to good effect in similar circumstances, or a Tire-Ninja with a specs database in his head so I can check those types of tires out to see if they are better suited to our needs/safety. So as far as specific information about the tires, it would be really nice to have the brand name and model #. Didn't ask or volunteer any other type of specific info, but if you want my credit card number it's......just kidding :) . I want to be clear, I am not a purchase authority, there is already a contract service provider for the vehicles, I just have to put my life and those of my teammates in those vehicles so am trying in my "spare time" to put together a coherent proposal to the client and the contract service provider to get some tires more suited to the job we do.

Thanks Brownie!

Best,
W

[A Ricci]

Wardog -- I will be back in touch with you ASAP I am checking with a friend and business asst. who manufactures large armored vehicle (swat, riot vans, etc) If anyone, he will know exactly what to put on the land cru. Yesterday he was at a trade show and I was unable to reach him I am sure I will have some info next week.

In the mean time you hit the nail on the head with under inflation being a huge problem. Most people think off road and right away let air out. This call depends on the surface you drive -- not just off road but hard packed or rocky hills. It depends on speeds traveled -- more speed more friction -- more heat greater chance of blowout and loss of control.

Crossing desert terrain for instance is mostly hard packed and extreme heat. A harder tire would actually be better for reducing heat build up and provide you with just about the same grip. If you were climbing rocky hills in Afg. then you might change to an off road tire designed to run with less air allowing the tire surface to spread out and better grip the uneven terrain.

You prob know all this all ready -- so I will be back on as soon as I talk to some people with the specific model numbers and names.

Thanks
Lata

Anthony Ricci
Advanced Driving & Security Inc
www.1adsi.com

Hello to all my old friends in the forum glad to see your all doing well. I will try to make myself more avail. if anyone wants to chat. I will prob. try to check in on a weekly basis. Sorry for my absence...Lots going on these days.

[A Ricci]

Sorry there are never any simple answers. I called a friend of mine who builds armored trucks. I thought there might a remote chance that he may have a particular tire maufac. and model number of choice. However as I thought this is to complicated and there really is no one tire for your needs. Here is why? When you start looking for tires for armored vehicles you really have to consider the amount of weight the tire is going to be holding back. This is called vertical load once that vertical load is exceeded the tire begins to fail (slide).

This starts with the type vehicle and who armored it. Was it retro-fit, was it just stuck together by your guys or did it come out of the factory to certain specs. How much weight was added and was the suspension and other weight bearing parts changed out for heavy duty weight and work??? Or was nothing changed other than adding a massive amount of weight? OK then we get to the rim. Are they original factory rims... If so you really need to change them first cause they are not made to handle a ton of weight in a hot environment bouncing off road. This could cause them to heat up and crack. So the rim would have to be built to handle the additional weight if so then you could install a run flat system to the rim. If the run flat system was on the rim you basically could pick a tire manufacture of your choice and purchase tires that would hold the most vertical load while better utilizing the traction limits available withing your choosen environment.

I hope this helps you to start your research but there are no perfect answers. You will have to do a lot of leg work to find out 1 about your trucks and 2 about what parts would work best for your environment.

Feel free to call me for the long verbal version


Anthony Ricci
1 401 294 1600
Advanced Driving & Security Inc