Looking for trainers on the...

[thegt1]

Hi everybody i have a couple of questions, i've been reading as much as i can get my hands on C.A.R.

Are there any trainers or classes on the southwest of the country i live in las vegas and love to get some training but all seem to be on the east coast.

One more thing can some one show me a picture of the " apogee stand " i try yesterday the close range application of this ( only the extended version ) and love to give it a try at longer distances.

[Brownie]

Welcome to the forum thegt1,

I'm sure our CAR expert and MOD will be able to answer your questions once he sees this post.

[RandyDTC]

I am not the CAR and MOD mentioned above but I hope I can help nonetheless.

The apogee position is simply the "extended" position with the arms truly extended so as to move the gun (and sights) farther away from your face (and eye). You can also use your dominate eye if you wish. There is a subtle change in the grip. See if you can spot it in the two frontal views.

Here are some pictures of both the extended and apogee positions.

Frontal view of the extended position.
http://www.dt-concepts.com/images/car-extended-front-view.jpg

Side view of the extended.
http://www.dt-concepts.com/images/car-extended-side-view.jpg

Frontal view of the apogee.
http://www.dt-concepts.com/images/car-apogee-front-view.jpg

Side view of the apogee.
http://www.dt-concepts.com/images/car-apogee-side-view.jpg

Hope these help. It will be difficult to get the positions correct by just by looking at these or other pictures. You need someone (a live instructor) to provide corrective feedback. In that light, one of the single most commonly offered corrections is to keep that support hand wrist straight. It really effects recoil management in a negative way if you do not. Just my $.02.

Randy

[Brownie]

Hey Randy,

The apogee position is making use of an interlocked little finger right? The thumbs are in different positions which suggests the support hand is also move into a different position.

Very nice pics and explanation.

Thanks

[David Williams]

Apologies for taking so long to see this thread, and thanks to Randy for picking it up.

Brownie - we suggest using the interlocked little finger with the apogee position because it does an amazing job of stabilizing the weapon for a lot of people. It helps prevent any unwanted squeezing action of the little finger during trigger pull; a common culprit in pulling the shot low and to either side (depending on your dominant hand). I prefer to use it any time I'm taking a long distance (+20m) shot with a sidearm, as I've found that it makes things significantly easier for me.

It's difficult to tell from the pictures because it looks like Randy prefers somewhat of a compact apogee, but the easiest way to explain weapon positioning is that the pistol moves so that the rear-sight occupies the same space as the front sight did while in the extended position. To change our focal point (from front sight to rear sight) we're simply moving the rear sight into view..into the exact same spot our eyes naturally tend to focus (reading distance).

When I move into the apogee, both my body orientation towards the target and my stance change a little. My shoulders square off a bit, and my feet take a little wider stance. In all honesty, it looks very much like the standard Isocoles if you don't know any better. One of the biggest things about the apogee position, however, is that if you're one of those shooters who finds yourself shooting dominant hand/non-dominant eye from the extended, then you may choose to move the sights back into your dominant eye while in the apogee. I'll try to put up a couple of pictures tomorrow to illustrate...it's difficult to explain in pure words.

Last point - good catch on the thumb positioning. The thumbs definitely do move forward (almost parallel with the slide) as opposed to the extended position. Thumb positioning is one of those visual/tactile indicators for when we've got the extended position right.. and it likewise serves to tell us when we've moved into the apogee, as it's practically impossible to keep your thumbs in the same position between the two.

To the Original Poster -
Kudos to you for trying to get this stuff out on the range and giving it a try! My only suggestion would be to make sure you get some personal attention before you develop any bad habits, since it's very difficult to get everything you need from videos and pictures. I'll see if there are any of us in the Vegas area.

[taugLark73]

My post was deleted because I chose not to follow the forum rules.

[JohnN]

Maybe I am not seeing something or not reading correctly but how do you keep from locking the slide back prematurely with your thumb on the slide lock?

[David Williams]

...how do you keep from locking the slide back prematurely with your thumb on the slide lock?
Don't put any upward pressure on the slide release. I have actually never seen this happen, nor have I heard of it happening to someone else. I suppose it's possible, just not probable.