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Brownie
04-05-2006, 10:03 PM
There are several possible angles of attack from a knife. All of these possible angles from a knife originate from linear [ straight ] lines.

If one attempts to block these attacks of the straight line, the linear angle and power can overcome the defensive blocking types and push through [ continue ] on through to their intended target.

Overhand attacks [ reverse grip ice pick types ] are the most powerful linear attack for most people and hard to stop with any type of blocking action. As such, women are more apt to naturally go to this type of attack as people just instinctually understand the force [ power ] generated by them.

Slashes; stabs and overhand [ ice pick types ] of attacks are all delivered in linear lines of motion. These three lines of attack are the ones we'll see used against us, perhaps in varying forms of combinations if the assailant is knowledgeable enough.

By attempting to get either forearm up to block the knife from getting into our core [ from reaching our body ] we give the assailant a closer target to cut or stab at. Accordingly, this is not going to be the best defense to use.

If the assailant is versed in the ways of the blade, he'll readily take advantage of the opportunity we give him in attempting to block his attack, hoping that we extend the arm in an attempt to block the knife.

When we attempt to block, we are attempting to stop the attack. If one has had any worthwhile defensive knife training, he/she knows that deflecting the attack is better than trying to stop the attack by blocking.

Enter, the "secret of circles". One needs to know how to deflect using circling motions close to the body and not extend outward with the foream or hand. In concert with deflecting the blade it's also wise to know how to move the body off the line of attack and get out of the strike zone in the event the defensive actions are not successful.

What most people fail to realize is that circling motions defeat the most powerful of linear motion. The power of the linear attack is not overcome but deflected away while moving the body off it's previous center. Moving ones body off it's present center line can be as simple as swiveling the hips and shoulders as well as in concert with moving the feet if time and distance permit us to do so.

Six basic circling motions with the hands and/or forearms can give us a very good defense against the three linear lines of attack from the knife [ slash, stab and overhand ].

Learning The Secret of Circles and these six counters is crucial to minimizing or negating the damage we can suffer from a linear knife attack.

My suggestion is to learn The Secret of Circles, protect the core at all times and take the assailants linear power away from him.

DocH
04-06-2006, 06:23 PM
This knife techniques thing is getting more interesting all the time.
Forget shooting. I can do that.I think some blade skills would get me well grounded. Hmmmm?

Brownie
04-06-2006, 06:49 PM
Doc,

Defensive edged weapons [ unarmed against the knife ] can be an open window to understanding things that don't show themselves as much in other defensive combative settings.

It's a "high art", these ways of the knife.:cool:

The knowledge and skills gained lend themselves to other areas very well. The skills need to be ingrained through practice with a partner, though some of the flow drills work well all by yourself.

sweatnbullets
04-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I got to see brownies knife work in Tucson last October.....very nice! He gave us three hours of stuff in the hotel rooms before the course even started and another two hours after one of the shooting sessions.

The secret of the circles is an outstanding concept. I was having some trouble with it in the training due to my presistant over analysis.:o On the third day we were doing some FOF, 7677 had my training partner surprise attack me with a knife. As soon as I needed it, and I quit over thinking it, there it was. The secret of the circle came to me in the most natural and effective way imaginable.

I need to get back to brownies house. Last time there we were nailing down the Quick Kill curriculum. I really need to go there and just go over H2H and knife. For those that are interested, I would highly recommend training with Robin. The guy just loves to "play." Go there for a QK course and you may recieve more than you were hoping for.;)

Brownie
04-07-2006, 11:05 PM
Roger,

Thanks for the thoughts

You are always welcome in my home.

Pick a date I'm not off training and we'll plan on it. H2H and the knife are favorite past times;) and it gives me a chance to keep up to speed on the materials as well.

riprobin
08-09-2007, 11:05 AM
Hello Brownie,

I am very interested in reading more about "The Secret of Circles" in defending against a linear knife attack.

Could you please direct me to a site which discusses this technique or art? I would be very grateful.

Cheers,

riprobin

Brownie
08-09-2007, 11:37 AM
Circling; deflections, and the theory and use of circles to defeat linear attacks are often discussed on Jim Keatings defensive edged weapons tapes.

I would google search Jim Keating [ he has a website full of infiormation ] and make contact with him via phone. Jim is easy to talk to, and if you tell him what you are looking for, he'll know which tapes cover this information in detail.

If you speak with Jim, please tell him I send my regards and hope he is doing well.

Welcome to the threat focused forum sir.

SwampRat
08-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Brownie, after years of Aikido/Aikijutsu it seems this works on the same principal. Everything we did was in circular motion. Using the aggressors own power/momentum against them could only be done by moving in a circular motion. Knife attacks, punches, jabs, slashes can all be redirected in similar fashion. I love the circle techniques, they work. Yin and Yang. Good stuff.

Brownie
08-09-2007, 04:41 PM
I love the circle techniques, they work

Yes, and at times they are the only recourse if one wants to survive as unscathed as possible.

Very good observations on deflective counters/defenses.

SwampRat
08-10-2007, 11:46 AM
"Secrets of the Circle".. and there are alot of 'em.. One that comes to mind and a favorite of mine is moving inside the circle..good footwork, center of gravity and lowering your center while moving in the same direction as the force being applied creating even more directional movement and an off balance situation for the attacker, once that is accomplished, then lowering your center you reverse the direction of the circle and apply that stored energy against the opponent..it can be devastating to the bad guy..

Brownie
08-10-2007, 11:46 PM
I learned the secret of circles primarily through the unarmed defensive blade work training from Jim Keating. The general principles behind their use seem universal to many different forms of SD taught with and without weapons.

The circles allowed me to advance significantly in skill levels first unarmed and then equally armed against a knife. I don't train as much as I'd like with the blades lately.

edited to add: I forgot to mention that after awhile, the unarmed defense skills utilizes circles that get smaller, subtle in contrast to obvious in nature, more reactive to use. Combining the two, smaller moves, more reactive, results in an increase in speed. At least thats the way it seems to have progressed for myself over 1.5 decades due to the unarmed blade defense training.

shaman
08-14-2007, 02:47 PM
Sweet. A fellow AikiDoka. Hi Swamp Rat.
I don't have a lot of experience compared to the bulk of posters here, hence my low post count. However, as it applies to Brownie's last post about using smaller circles as you proceed with the skill, I do have something to relate.
We all know how small a standard size 1 ton truck cab can be when you get two guys in it. I'm about 200 lbs @ 6 feet tall. A guy I knew who outweighed me by 100 lbs (most of it bone and muscle) jumped me from the driver's side when we were parked trying to choke me out.
He'd had some brain chemistry issues that made him prone to illogical angry outbursts, and was doped to the gills so that a joint lock would only make him mad, so I took it seriously despite the fact we were buds.
Anyway:
He came at me and I started deflecting his country ham sized hands with circular motions. Fortunately, he never laid a glove on me until he came back to his senses. So, I didn't get choked out or goodness knows what else.
Small circular moves saved my butt. And, if I'd been defending against a knife, I can't imagine a better way to deflect the attack.
But that's old news, I suppose. I suppose people have been using circular deflection vs. blades for a long time.

Brownie
08-23-2007, 02:04 PM
shaman,

I don't have a lot of experience compared to the bulk of posters here, hence my low post count.

We like to think everyone has something to offer, even if just an opinion or question about something another member has posted.

Don't be shy, we are all learning here through the exchange of information.

SwampRat
08-23-2007, 03:28 PM
Shaman, I dont have the experience guys like Brownie, DJ, JMusic, DocH, 7677, Dave Williams etc etc do but its great to able to converse with guys of this diversified of experience. I was never an LEO, in fact I was kinda on the other side of line sometimes. However I did do the combat tour, chased some BG's for money, bounced a few C&W bars and maybe some of those will come out in the "Friday Night Lies" thread one of these days. Glad to see you also study the Aiki arts. Dont worry about the posts just glean all the info you can from these guys and post your thoughts. So far I havent seen any Egocentric posts like you do on most threads. Of course i think most of us are in our 50' or 60's but a few are younger guys like David Williams who is probably older than his years being a combat vet and Jarhead, but there really isn't any question you couldn't pose to this group that wouldn't be answered in a rational well thought out manner based upon their own individual experience. To say the least its quite refreshing compared to some of the forums I've been on.

And the Cirlce of knowledge is to be continued..

kevininstructor
09-29-2007, 05:22 PM
I have to agree with "the Secret of Circles" especially when you use them in training or actual combat.