Pirates

[JMusic]

OK after the latest successful US operation against the pirates where do you think this will go? First I have limitted knowledge of what was done other than the pirates had the misfortune to be tied to a US military vessel. The Seals and frankly the Military forces in general are the finest fighting forces in the world. But shooting at these guys bobbing around probably was not that difficult. The pirates never had a chance. Frankly if they would have had a tactical mind they should have expected that.

So whats next? My thought is we will have some fatalities out of the next hijack forcing a few options. Arming crew, (won't happen) squads of marines on board each US vessel, (not likely) or private security. What do you guys think and what weaponry do you think each would need?

Jim

[DocH]

I think a weak President and a weak Government in general is the reason for the treatment of the U.S. around the world. I believe he will conrinue to express "deep disappointment" in turns of events and continue to suppress the military commanders keeping them from doing anything until it's almost too late.
The pirates,as well as the middle eastern terrorists have his number ,just as we do and neither he or the U.S. will ever get any respect from them,nor will they fear any reprisals for anything they do.
If we had another go to Hell Harry in office this fooolishness would have ended a long time ago. Those who continue to take to sea can simply expect more of this and I don't think there will be any arming of crews either.
The Screaming Eagle has it's talons clipped with the leadership we have now. We need someone who doesn't give a damn if we start Arrmegeddon,before we will ever get our self respect back.
I believe the prez will capitulate to any foreign government when pressured. He tells the world that we are not a christian nation, he tells the Frenh weaklings that we have saved twice that America is arrogant,and he bows..BOWS!... to the King of an oil rich nation. Some will say it's easy to blame him for everything. Well,it didn't start under his watch but it has gotten much,much worse in just the few short months he has held office. He is hurling us into the abbys.
If something isn't done,I believe we are doomed as a power in the world. This is a job for the Navy and they need the green light to end it for good.

[SwampRat]

I've got friends right now negotiating for Private Security on board the merchant ships..we shall see how that pans out..to me, that seems to be the most logical step. Getting around the maritime law in different ports is going to be difficult however I think it can be overcome..The Insurance companies I feel will be the greatest obstacle..

[JMusic]

Yeah Doc I agree its a job for the Navy but they would at least have to post marines randomly on the vessels at the minimum. I don't think we have the balls either. I think Swamprat is right it will go the way of security and pickup just out of port is how you would handle it.

I'd want my M1A1, night vision/scope, KImber and Glock and about 100 grand a trip. Hell I'm ready to go!!!

Really though the AK47's don't have much range but they do carry some of the full auto belt fed 7.62 by 54's that would equal the M1A1 range. I don't think it would take more than a few guys to keep the ships safe. I'm not sure about the range of RPG's so you would have to have a plan for that. Overwhelming fire may be the answer.:eek:


Jim

[Brownie]

The shipping industry should hire private contractors for this security work.

If they stay on ship, I don't see issues with any ports of call and the guns on board in private hands.

Brownie

[DocH]

Agreed on the security aboard the ships.That's one step. I think the military (Navy-Marines) certainly have the cajones,but the action must be blessed by he who must be obeyed and therein lies the problem.
I wouldn't mind sailing the seas again myself. These days I can swim faster than I can run.:D

[RAM]

The shipping industry should hire private contractors for this security work.

If they stay on ship, I don't see issues with any ports of call and the guns on board in private hands.

Brownie

I don't see any issues either, but when in Rome...

Many countries do not care if shipping vessels have guns on board, some require they be kept in a secured armory while inside 2 miles of shore. Some require they be surrendered to local authorities while in port and are returned at departure. It's their country their rules. Many European countries don't want guns in anyone’s hands except when they are being rescued from the Hitlers of the world. Go figure!

It sounds like it can be a headache to keep track of but doable. Worst case they could put the security force on a small tender before entering a no gun zone or boycott those areas with unreasonable restrictions.

On the other hand if the Navy was commanded by a Pres that could find a pair, they could monitor the area where the piracy is rampant and sink any vessel committing acts construed as piracy. Sink enough pirate ships and let the pirates go down with them and the piracy would stop.

I know I am not politically correct in this but we are the 800 pound gorilla, if we can't have our ships sail the high seas freely and without fear of piracy then it is time to sit on some 100 pound pirates. Sink the bastards.

[JMusic]

Well on the news today Israeli security stopped an attempt of high jacking a cruiser. They say the Israelis are the best in the world at this.



Jim

[David Armstrong]

Might want to keep in mind that virtually all of the ships in the area are NOT under American flag. In fact, IIRC, the one US ship that got hit was the first US ship to be pirated in over 100 years. But, given that the ships fly flags from other countries, putting US troops on them becomes very problematic. It will almost have to be done with private sector forces.

[C16MO]

When I think of all the ships flying US flags that enjoyed free passage from the pirates in the past it reminds me of my first impression when I arrived in Korea in 1961. One one of my first trips off compound we passed a Turkish installation. Oddly there was a single strand of barbed wire, approximately 12" off the ground, which enclosed their facility - and no guard at the entrance. Rumor was the first slicky boy that robber them had a rifle rod run in one ear and out the other and was hung up to dry at the entrance to their camp. Following that, no more problems :)

My camp had what I remember to be 8' high chained link fencing with concertina wire along the top and an MP at the entrance.

But today, as we free the prisoners from Guantanamo and entertain ideas of prosecuting our CIA interrogators, we aren't encouraging respect from the rest of the world. :mad:

[JMusic]

I glad you answered DW I was looking for a reply to show an intrest. I bet there are a lot of ships that pay for a small security force. I think it can be done with a few people and equipment inour closets. Key is spotting before they get close and have the weapons for your tactics. I may prefer keeping them away until they brought big guns in or I'd let em
hook right up to the boat and maybe start poping the ones in the boat the rest off the net. I'd set rules of engagement at the first flare.:eek: Hard to tell I'm taking testosterone shots isn't it.:D

Jim

[JMusic]

I can't believe no one wants to go shoot some skinnys. Maybe its just because Im off the summer.:D


Jim

[gtho150]

I have a client who runs a luxery ship , and he says" the way the laws are in the different Ports, he wont allow guns on board". He worries about pirates, and has out ran a few, but he wont allow weapons.
Gary

[Michael]

If I was certain that I wouldn't be prosecuted under some obscure statute, I'd be all for a little sailing adventure. I always like cruises.:cool:

[JMusic]

I thought of that Michael. we would have to charter a boat to pick us up once we arrive to a safe port. Man I think there's money in this and it has not been answered yet. I would look for a local say from south africa for mor info.



Jim

[Brownie]

I have a client who runs a luxery ship , and he says" the way the laws are in the different Ports, he wont allow guns on board". He worries about pirates, and has out ran a few, but he wont allow weapons.
Gary

That confirms just about what I expected and had discussed with Jim in a conversation last month. The ships owners/captains aren't going to allow weapons on ships due to the laws of these countries, let alone armed personnel firing from the ships if they are approached by terrs.

[Michael]

I thought of that Michael. we would have to charter a boat to pick us up once we arrive to a safe port. Man I think there's money in this and it has not been answered yet. I would look for a local say from south africa for mor info.



Jim

I know that Blackwater had bought and outfitted a ship for just this purpose before BW imploded. I don't know what has happened since then.

[JMusic]

I think it would take alot of research at first and establish a contact or two. I'm not talking Rambo here I'm talking buisness. Is the problem escalating? I don't know but if there is a need fill it. We are talking about 5 teams of each ship for a few months. I''ll be damned if I would let a small boat load their skinnings if I stick to 1000 yard rule. I think this is an opportunity that could grow.

But then I have big **** which overrides common sense some times.:D Boys I want to make some money these skinnies ain't up to the task.:cool:



Jim

[David Armstrong]

Boys I want to make some money these skinnies ain't up to the task.
We've made the mistake of underestimating "these skinnies" before, it might be wise to not underestimate them again. Due to a booming market the pirates have access to a pretty good selection of weaponry, including anti-tank missles, and many of them have been in more combat than lots of professional soldiers.

[JMusic]

Your right. We would have to know the range of he RPG. Also they are very good ground fighters. There's a difference though in trying to get out of a 20 foot boat with armed pro's aboard. Poart of the stratedgy would be knowing what weapons you would need. I still don't think they could get aboard. You've got the high ground and with radar even in the dark they would become a target at 1000yds.




Jim