Christmas OIS

[DocH]

A little after midnight,actually. Officer was dispatched to an extreme outlying area of the county where it was reported that a male was beating a female severely. As he arrives he observes the male still beating the female with a stick.The dashcam captures this. He exits the car and yells for the man to stop. The man continues beating the woman. The stick is coverered with blood,skin,and meat and the female's left eye is almost all the way out of the socket.
The officer draws his Tazer and tackles the man,wrestling him to the ground,while calling for an ambulance on his shoulder mike. He gets one hand cuffed and then,with the Tazer still in his hand,he removes the end cap from it to prevent the wires from being launched,and lays it on the ground to free his hand for better control of the heavily drugged suspect.
The suspect gets his uncuffed hand free and reaches and grabs the Tazer at which time the officer jumps up and backs away a few feet yellling for him to drop it. The suspect points the Tazer at the officer and begins pulling the trigger repeatedly,thinking it is a pistol. It looks like a large hand gun. Officer draws his sidearm and gets on the shoulder mike. Backup,including the supervisor are coming his way,hell for leather.

Officer: He's got my Tazer -pause=

Officer: He's advancing on me with the Tazer(officer all the while backing up yelling for him to stop)

The Tazer is still capable of working by touching the officer with the prongs,possibly allowing a disarm.

Supervisor: If he's being aggressive with it,put him down!

Officer: He's within three feet now._pause_..... Shots fired to the Chest!

Supervisor: Is he on the ground?

Officer: He's on the ground,but still moving.

Supervisor: We'll be there in a minute,Dispatch get another ambulance enroute.

The suspect died at the scene. Surgeons were called to begin immediate reconstructive surgery on the woman. The incident is of course under investigation and the officer is being councelled and cared for by those who have already experienced this. The perpetrator was a 52 yo white male,heavily under the influence of several drugs,and alcohol.

[Brownie]

BG got what he deserved, but why didn't the officer just tase him to begin with?

Gotta be there, of course, but it's a bad day for a lot of people.

Thankfully, the officer is okay and the woman will hopefully fully recover.

Thanks for sharing this recounting Doc

[DocH]

I asked myself the same question.Why didn't he taser him first if he already had it out? Unfortunately,I can't ask anyone anything until the investigation is closed.

They've had the tasers for a couple of years now and they have been very effective so far. I am aware of two occasions where they were used successfully against knife weilders as a first resort and it worked out well.

I would have given about anything for a weapon like that when I policed.
I would have left the street with more teeth and fewer knots on my head.
I think they make an excellant alternative in many situations,and you don't have to tear up your uniforms so much.

[Dave in PA]

I sure hate to Monday morning QB someone else, but I also wondered why the officer didn't taze right away. Of course I wasn't there either and don't know the full circumstances.

I wonder if the officer was fearful regarding more recent public protest over the use of the Taser? I'd hate to have public opinion dictate what we do and have that endanger lives, but I know it happens.

Either way, I'm glad the officer is physically safe and hope he fares well in the aftermath.

[Brownie]

Dave,

I'm also wondering if he second guessed the taser's effectiveness in that situation?

Going H2h in lieu of equipment, he had to have a reason.

[sbeckman]

The new and improved story?

A little after midnight,actually. Officer was dispatched to an extreme outlying area of the county where it was reported that a male was beating a female severely. :mad:
As he arrives he observes the male still beating the female with a stick.

The dashcam captures this. He exits the car and yells for the man to stop. The man continues beating the woman.

The stick is covered with blood,skin,and meat and the female's left eye is almost all the way out of the socket.:eek:

The officer draws his Service Pistol and shoots the POS to the ground.:cool:

Problem solved...;)

Calls for an ambulance on his shoulder mike while assisting the woman as best he can.

And they all lived happily ever after....

[Michael]

The thumbs down at the top should not be there----I hit it by mistake.

I hate to MMQ as well, but I have several concerns.

1. If he pulled the Taser out, he should have either used it or re-holstered it before going hands on.
2. Never lay a weapon on the ground. Ever.
3. If he had already removed the cartridge, all you have is a stun gun, which is easily moved away from it if makes contact. It has to be held against you to do anything, and even then the effect is much less than with the barbs.

If the BG had the Taser with cartridge still attached, then shooting is definitely in order. Without the cartridge attached, I personally probably would not have done so, but I have enough confidence in my H2H skills not to. He may not have had the ability, and I am not saying he should not have shot since I wasn't there. For his skill level, it may have been the right thing to do. For me, I would not have shot at that point. Heck, he was probably justified in shooting right off the bat, when the guy was still beating the female with the stick. That said, I am glad the cop is okay, and it was the BG's choice to do what he did and he paid the price.

[ Edited by S.Camp: Michael, I removed the down thumb icon. Let me know what icon you'd like, if any. ]

[DocH]

Michael,I have to agree with all three points you made. Actually I think the act of MMQ in these situations by experienced people is a good thing.
The officer has been on about three years,maybe four. He's a swat team member. He's an entry man. He's strong,with huge arms,and he has good H2H skills. He's also very young. I discussed this situation with a couple of people today. I think we're just going to have to wait until more is revealed by the officer himself. He's generally considered to have a good head on his shoulders. Laying the taser on the ground WAS a mistake,for sure.
I wish him the best, but this one may be borderline.He may have been better off to shoot to stop the forcible assault than to have let it carry through the whole taser ordeal.

[Michael]

Doc, yes, and I hope that he comes out of the aftermath with as few problems as possible.

[DocH]

Today I had the opportunity to view the dashcam video. This shooting was entirely justified. I witnessed the "rest of the story."

[Michael]

Today I had the opportunity to view the dashcam video. This shooting was entirely justified. I witnessed the "rest of the story."

That is often the case, just like when the media jumps on the police for something before all the facts are known. I am glad to know he is going to be "okay" legally.

[Octagon]

With the severity of the injuries and time I never doubted the officers justification for shooting this guy even before getting in a serious struggle I just am not sure about the self taser disarming without trying it if he had it ready and in hand. It seams as if he had time to remove the cartridge he could have shot the taser and if ineffective went to firearms while keeping some distance. There isn't enough detailed info for a serious inquiry but that is my initial thought. It also looks better to bleeding heart uninformed juries when they hear the officer tried a lower level of force and it failed. I hope he comes out of it OK legally,mentally and physically as well as the victim.

[DocH]

We hear a lot at first which cannot be immediately confirmed unless we are there or on that particular radio,so the firsthand reports are sometimes conflicting in nature. As stated earlier,the particular tazers that the FCPD uses LOOK like large pistols and are worn in the crossdraw position.This position in open carry has always been an easy gun grab for an opponent.

The perpetrator,in fact,did access the taser,obviously thinking it was a pistol,but the officer,fast,strong,and skilled was able to grab it and eject the nose,disabling it from being used with the wires attached. He then gained control of the taser and wrestled the subject to the ground,at which time he did lay it on the ground to free his other hand to handcuff the second hand of the suspect.

The laser was still workable on the taser and the red light was on the officer as the suspect continued to pull the trigger,still thinking it was a gun in his high and intoxicated state. Obviously thinking the "gun" was jammed or inoperable a second weapon(edged) was deployed.

The officer removed his Glock 22 and continued to back up,ordering the subject several times to drop the weapon. The subject continued to advance,still pulling the trigger of the taser and yelling for the officer to "check on her". At a distance of less than three feet,the two shots sounded like one shot,and the subject dropped straight down to the ground and uttered,"It don't matter now."

First backup arrived and the officer yelled for him to bring some gloves and CPR was started immediately.
End of story. Justified. Period.

[Michael]

Doc, that account makes sense. Thanks.

[Octagon]

We hear a lot at first which cannot be immediately confirmed unless we are there or on that particular radio,so the firsthand reports are sometimes conflicting in nature. As stated earlier,the particular tazers that the FCPD uses LOOK like large pistols and are worn in the crossdraw position.This position in open carry has always been an easy gun grab for an opponent.

The perpetrator,in fact,did access the taser,obviously thinking it was a pistol,but the officer,fast,strong,and skilled was able to grab it and eject the nose,disabling it from being used with the wires attached. He then gained control of the taser and wrestled the subject to the ground,at which time he did lay it on the ground to free his other hand to handcuff the second hand of the suspect.

The laser was still workable on the taser and the red light was on the officer as the suspect continued to pull the trigger,still thinking it was a gun in his high and intoxicated state. Obviously thinking the "gun" was jammed or inoperable a second weapon(edged) was deployed.

The officer removed his Glock 22 and continued to back up,ordering the subject several times to drop the weapon. The subject continued to advance,still pulling the trigger of the taser and yelling for the officer to "check on her". At a distance of less than three feet,the two shots sounded like one shot,and the subject dropped straight down to the ground and uttered,"It don't matter now."

First backup arrived and the officer yelled for him to bring some gloves and CPR was started immediately.
End of story. Justified. Period.

This more detailed version makes more sense. He never pulled his taser he was disarmed of it and in a struggle removed the cartridge so he wouldn't be shot with it and only could be drive stunned. That's much more understandable then the first story. I still am not clear on whether the suspect had both the edged weapon and taser when the officer shot him or just the taser with no cartridge. It sounds like both unless the edge weapon was dropped or knocked free prior to the officer disengaging. It sounds like they were using the older taser version which has a bigger grip area then the X 26 Tasers we use. I still would like to know more as the disarm is something many of us don't think of the same way as a firearm.

BTW I am Taser certified and for those that are unfamiliar the probe shooting taser shot is much more effective as it affects a larger area ( between the probes ) then the drive stun ( two contact points a couple inches apart )

[RAM]

That is often the case, just like when the media jumps on the police for something before all the facts are known. I am glad to know he is going to be "okay" legally.

The media are in good company... Even our illusterless president jump on the cops without knowing the facts... Isn't that the definition of PREJUDICE?

Glad this one came out well.

[Michael]

The media are in good company... Even our illusterless president jump on the cops without knowing the facts... Isn't that the definition of PREJUDICE?

Glad this one came out well.

But he's OBAMA, and we should all just bow down and take what he says as the Gospel. Not me, not over my dead body, but it is amazing how many stooges do exactly that.:mad:

[DocH]

This officer has returned to work and is working at the station, inside for a couple of weeks until he himself decides he is fully ready to go back on the road. He had wisely set his own timeline for returning,and the psychologist wrote the supers a letter(unknown to him) saying he was ready to come back about three weeks ago.This upset his applecart and his recovery plan and he let them all know it in no uncertain terms. He has come back now because he was ready and it met his timeline for return. He's doing fine.

[Michael]

Doc, that's good to here, thanks for the update.

[Dave in PA]

Doc, thanks for the update and I'm glad to hear he's doing fine.

[grasssnake]

I think drugs killed this guy. If he is on drugs that introduces a completely different paradigm. What does it take to get a drugged guy to stop beating someone? What does it take to get a drugged guy to stop being a threat to you? Probably Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson in good doses.

[JMusic]

I think drugs killed this guy. If he is on drugs that introduces a completely different paradigm. What does it take to get a drugged guy to stop beating someone? What does it take to get a drugged guy to stop being a threat to you? Probably Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson in good doses.

Don't disagree. Many here have thier drugy stories to tell.:D My experience has been though that an angry man high on adrenalin is as strong as anyone drugged. MAYBE slightly more rational, its close.:cool:


Jim