A student of McDaniel speaks of his training experience

[Brownie]

This narrative was sent along to me by a member here who goes by RJS. I call him "Wild Rob Kickock" for his superb skills with a handgun using Quick Kill.
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Instinct Shooting

Thomas F. Norton

9/8/2005

Lucky McDaniel said he could teach me to shoot a wad of paper out of a washer he tossed into the air – with a BB gun. He said it very matter-of-factly, and he didn't look like the sort of guy you'd laugh at.

It was South Texas in 1964. I'd been shooting since I was 7 and thought I had very little to learn about rifles, pistols, shotguns or the 20mm cannons in the A-4s I was flying. That was before Bobby Lamar McDaniel – known far and wide as Lucky – got hold of me.

An old friend, John Pitcairn, introduced us. He and his wife were going to take lessons from Lucky and thought that I should pony up the $75 to do likewise. That was a lot of money for a young man on Uncle Sam's payroll, in 1964 terms, so I said I'd go along with the Pitcairns and see what all that money would get me.

It didn't take long for me to part with the money.

The first thing McDaniel did was to shoot the shot out of a shotgun shell he tossed into the air, then shoot down a penny with the wad. Pretty darned good. Then he stuffed a wad of paper into a steel washer a couple of inches in diameter, tossed it up, whipped a Red Ryder BB gun to his shoulder and shot. The paper went one way, the washer another. He did that several times, using washers of impressively decreasing size. Funny thing, too: there were no sights on the gun.

He handed me the BB gun, which felt familiar, just like the one I'd had for a couple of decades. Up went the washer. I aimed, pulled the trigger and – washer and wad came down together. Hmm.

"Don't look down the barrel," McDaniel said. "Look at the top of the target. Your hands will point the gun instinctively."

He was right. After a few more failures I started hitting the paper wad every time, even as McDaniel selected smaller and smaller washers. In about 20 minutes I was a reliable "instinct shooter" – McDaniel's term for what he was teaching.

Then we went to a .410 shotgun. McDaniel whipped off a clay pigeon. I missed. Another one. Missed. And again. A third miss.

"Know what you're doin'?" McDaniel drawled. Nope. "You're going back to the way you've always handled a shotgun, aiming down the barrel. Shoot without sighting, aiming or leading" a moving target. "Your left arm will aim the gun," he said.

He was right. I had been squinting down the barrel. I started busting clay pigeons.

"Once you start hitting, you won't stop," he said. "Children are easier to teach," he added dryly. "No bad habits to break."

It made no difference to McDaniel whether his pupil had been shooting since childhood or never held a gun before. "You can learn in minutes to hit anything you can see if it's in range," he said, and as I watched he taught a 10-year old boy who never had shot, and the boy's mother who was an experienced wing shot, his remarkable method.

"'Most everyone shoots under an aerial target because the gun is lower than the eye," McDaniel stated. "Look at the top of the target and keep both eyes open."

Lucky McDaniel was born on a peach farm in Upson County, Georgia. Before he was 6, an uncle gave him a .410 and with his first shot he bagged a fast-flying quail. "I was probably shooting by instinct even then," he said.

Early in life he sold tobacco in Georgia. "I'd bet crossroads store owners I could hit a coin from their cash registers with an air rifle against large orders for pipe tobacco." He became a very successful salesman. One Friday afternoon in 1954 a man paid McDaniel $25 to teach him to shoot, then found another man who paid $100. "In less than four hours I made $125," he recounted 10 years later, shaking his head. "I sure would have to sell a lot of snuff and tobacco to make $125 in any four hours!"

That started a career lasting nearly half a century. At one time he taught instinct shooting to the entire Chicago White Sox baseball team and helped them apply his principles to batting. He taught President Eisenhower, Floyd Patterson, John Wayne, Audie Murphy and a host of generals, athletes and movie stars. He taught armed forces instructors who developed a tactic called "quick kill," still in use today.

Lucky McDaniel died several years ago as he approached 80, but it is still possible to learn Instinct Shooting. To learn from the master, himself (albeit second hand), find a copy of "Instinct Shooting," by Mike Jennings, published by Dodd, Mead & Co. in 1959. It is available through Alibris and other on-line booksellers, and sometimes can be found in secondhand book stores.
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You can also learn Lucky's "Instinct Shooting" with a rifle firsthand from Robin Brown, who was personally trained by Lucky McDaniel in 1981.

[SAWBONES]

I'm trying to get a copy of the book.

Do you think this stuff actually can be learned from a book to a significant (useful) degree, or does it definitely require hands-on personal teaching?
(Being able to actually attend a class is obviously much more difficult than reading and practicing on ones' own!)

[Brownie]

Sawbones

The book will give someone a very good idea of the principles behind rifle QK though it will probably take hands on training to master the technique correctly.

I say that because the manual could not just be handed to soldiers and have them then be able to use the skills, nor could someone just talk to Lucky and master them very easily but for the physical training at his hands.

[JMusic]

Brownie how much time did it take you to hit beer cans then 50 cc pill bottles out of the air with a 22 pistol? This was being done with a revolver double action. My recolection is less than 10 throws.
Jim

[sweatnbullets]

Originally Posted by SAWBONES

I'm trying to get a copy of the book.

Do you think this stuff actually can be learned from a book to a significant (useful) degree, or does it definitely require hands-on personal teaching?
(Being able to actually attend a class is obviously much more difficult than reading and practicing on ones' own!)

I agree with Robin. You may get the basic ideas or concepts down, but it is a physical skill that relies heavily on confidence.

I was able to do QK with a pistol before I trained with Robin. But there was always this "doubt" attached to it before I actually formally trained in front of him.

The way I see it is that confidence is the ultimate key to success. This confidence can only be obtained with direct formal training. It is what I learned and it is what I am passing on to my students.

I have complete control of my students confidence. I do not lose that control even for a second. I build them up until they own it and they will own it for the rest of their lives.

[Brownie]

Brownie how much time did it take you to hit beer cans then 50 cc pill bottles out of the air with a 22 pistol? This was being done with a revolver double action. My recolection is less than 10 throws.
Jim

Jim, I must apologize that I did not respond to the above. I had mistakenly put TFF notices in the spam filter and did not receive notifications of replies for a few days before figuring out why. This one was one of the posts that got blocked apparently.

Yes, you certainly had me making a fair amount of hits on cans and the pill bottles in about 10 minutes, but within 10 throws the hits were coming fairly well for the first attempts at this. It was the first time I had ever shot anything out of the air with pistols. Your skills in ariels with pistols and rifles were well honed in both. It showed you had been playing with that talent for some time.

I really appreciated your getting me up to speed on pistol ariels with the 22 revos in double action. I bought a 22 pistol shortly after I got home to continue in that skills set. You likely created a monster and I'll be running bricks of 22's now in an attmept to come up to par with you on that.

I think we should do the members a favor and report on that bbguns performance you bought, but I'll defer to your judgement. That rifle has been mentioned here, and I would not want the members to buy one with expectations of performance.

What say you on this subject? Should we tell it like it is or leave it alone and not post our findings on that product in it's own thread?

[JMusic]

Brownie your report of my airial skills are more than kind. I would rate that performance as poor at best. It takes practice to become proficient at this game and contrairy to some posts you don't stay there at 400 rounds a year. Maybe this fall I can better the performance.

Ah yeah, Chief AJ's BB gun. Well I would not buy another one. As Brownie can confirm we shot at a 3 lb coffee can at 20 yards and could hit it maybe one time in five. It had more moves than Nolan Ryans knuckle ball. Worse BB gun I have seen. My recommendation is don't buy. If someone wants one PM me and I will sell mine for 30 bucks. Autographed version (no sights though). The Chief even autographed the box. They are 79 bucks new. Not sure why it shoots so bad maybe with different bb's it might deliver but I sure wouldn't bet on it.
Jim

[Brownie]

Not sure why it shoots so bad maybe with different bb's it might deliver but I sure wouldn't bet on it.

My guess, based on owning two red ryders [ which Chief AJ's is in reality ], is that his are souped up in velocity a lot over the red ryders and the bb's just are not going to stay straight in flight at the speed.

My standard red ryders shoot slow compared to that model from Daisy produced for Chief AJ. Even at the speed of the standard red ryders I have, really anything past 10-12 feet is an iffy proposition as they start acting like that Nolan Ryan firing one you have [ just not as violently ] which I feel is all due to the velocity of that model of yours.

I've shot the zinc coated bbguns, and the copper coated from mine by the thousands [ I'm on my third bottle of 6K now and thats half gone ]. There is no difference in their performance out the business end.

As you mention "It takes practice to become proficient at this game". Put me on a standard red ryder and my level of proficiency in hitting moves up considerably. That would certainly be an indication that your statement is true to a fault. I believe one becomes one with a certain gun and if that changes significantly, so they'll have to learn the different guns indiosyncracies [sp?] all over again.

[JMusic]

Exactly, as I told you I was trained with a 22 rifle. Yep thats right look the hell out!!! Anyway way changing High V brands caused a slight adjustment to get back to normal and thats at a rate of 1500 rounds a weekend. You know what I'm putting together now. I'll be proficient by fall and may be able to post some true examples of what you can do with instinctive shooting. I was trained by an old man who used a high standard sport king in 22 short. He shot quarters out of the air with it. His method is exactly as described and where I came from there were about 5 people who had the skill to hit coins better than 50 % with a rifle. The competitive game that you and I practiced of two on one target really gets your skill set up to par once you become comfortable. Don't be afraid to try that with your students if you so decide. You talked of Lucky using coffee cans. When I was started out we used Baby Moon hubcaps .
Jim

[Brownie]

Lucky used the disks, I use the coffee cans, then the disks hanging on the trainer, then the same disks thrown by hand.

Looking forward to your results, yes I know what you are up to right now. It will be interesting to read your findings on this.